Ojas (general discussion)

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Re: Ojas (general discussion)

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:14 pm

At least until I learn more about the application of Ojas in relation to Suhkra, I'll follow H.H. the Dalai Lama's Karmamudra advice about retaining the seed.

If semen retention or lack thereof is a non-issue in Dzogchen, then it is completely up to the practitioner; so then with the main point being to know our Real Nature via Guru Yoga and the Three Statements of Garab Dorje as the basis.
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Re: Ojas (general discussion)

Postby Pero » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:16 pm

Paul wrote:
Pero wrote:This will sound harsh, but I don't think he's qualified to translate it

a) He's a person that's given up vajrayana/dzogchen practice for a completely different religion

Well I'm not sure if that matters in regards to one's ability to translate from Tibetan.

b) He starts by discussing Jung - a decades old method of making vajrayana confusing

Hehe, I actually only very quickly skimmed through whatever he had to say because of your previous reason and just read the translation.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: Ojas (general discussion)

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:18 pm

Virgo

You're right, I should have just left it at asking what's with the disrespect.

alwayson

How can we be sure that David Gray is accurately translating, and from original source texts?
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Re: Ojas (general discussion)

Postby alwayson » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:25 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:You're right, I should have just left it at asking what's with the disrespect.

Anyway, how can we be sure that David Grey is accurately translating, and from original source texts?




The main point is that Buddhist sexual practice was originally about going beyond the boundaries of Indian social norms.

Thats why you use a low caste woman etc.
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Re: Ojas (general discussion)

Postby Paul » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:26 pm

Pero wrote:
Paul wrote:
Pero wrote:This will sound harsh, but I don't think he's qualified to translate it

a) He's a person that's given up vajrayana/dzogchen practice for a completely different religion

Well I'm not sure if that matters in regards to one's ability to translate from Tibetan.

b) He starts by discussing Jung - a decades old method of making vajrayana confusing

Hehe, I actually only very quickly skimmed through whatever he had to say because of your previous reason and just read the translation.


Personally, I believe that a translator should be a practitioner, otherwise the meaning of the terms is lost. A translation is never easy as it's not possible to do it with 100% accuracy, so what's important to convey is the meaning. And only a practitioner could understand the meaning of what's effectively a guide to having particular experiences. Maybe I'm just spoilt by good translators like EPK.
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Re: Ojas (general discussion)

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:39 pm

alwayson wrote:The main point is that Buddhist sexual practice was originally about going beyond the boundaries of Indian social norms.

Thats why you use a low caste woman etc.


I'll bet that many of the Vedic 'Aryans' who supposedly followed the social norms used plenty of "low caste" Chandali or Dravidian girls.

We don't need to engage in various types of wanton sex or eat 'nasty' stuff to practice Dzogchen anyway do we. The Thogal Visions could appear just fine without it I'm sure.

Anyhow, yea I'll have to look into David Gray's books sometime, if to at least check up on his credibility.
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Re: Ojas (general discussion)

Postby Paul » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:43 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:We don't need to engage in various types of wanton sex or eat nasty stuff to practice Dzogchen anyway do we.


We don't have to, but what better way to spend the weekend? :pig:
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Re: Ojas (general discussion)

Postby catmoon » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:02 pm

The last post has been removed. Lock will remain in place pending disciplinary action.
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Re: Ojas (general discussion)

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:18 pm

Here's another related post on Sukhra:

viewtopic.php?f=40&t=5330&p=58856&hilit=Kita#p58856

Although I believe that female Sukrha is called Raja.


And to quote Namdrol's quote from an earlier post:

"The final state of the semen (sukra) of the physical constituents (saptadhātu) is the supreme one called "ojas"; located in the heart, pervading the entire body, and causing longevity, and causing a radiant complexion and a brightness."

Just want to add here that this doesn't contradict that physical semen as the final product of digestion can be transmuted into subtle matter or energy (as I've mentioned before, Ojas we could say is both physical and subtle).

And from what I've learned Semen/Suhkra can indeed be transmuted into Ojas; however that if semen sits untransmuted in the body for too long, it dies (i.e. no longer capable of creating life externally or internally), and would therefore become a waste product in this latter case.

Nevertheless, there is not necessarily any need to ejaculate it if it happens to become a waste product, because it will come out on its own with our urine during defecation, or even during urination alone. At the very least, Sukrha can also be absorbed back into and dissolved in the bloodstream. Also, live semen could escape along with stagnant semen during ejaculation, and also the muscle spasms of orgasm are just as damaging to our practice as loss of semen (I'd posted a link about this on the first page of this thread).

Now if we are transmuting properly (and retaining the semen, but not forcefully) and/or enough (whether through Pranayama, Yantra Yoga, Tummo, or Karmamudra practice), the Sukrha will not have enough time to stagnate, die, and become a waste product, as it will instead be continually transmuted into Ojas, more or less right after it is formed after digestion; and will strengthen the Nadis and various glands and chakras in the body.

Some may not agree with this, but it is the only logical explanation behind some schools of Hindu, Taoist, and Buddhist Tantra's injuctions (such as the Gelugpa) to not ever ejaculate the semen through orgasm.

In my own experience, it is easily possible to at least go for months without releasing semen (the Dalai Lama said that Initiates of Tantra should not lose semen even during dreams, which is easier to achieve for those practicing Karmamudra than it is for celibates), and with only losing very little semen during micturition on occasion.

In my own experience as well, it is also much more difficult to overcome the affliction of lust if we are intentionally losing the semen.

People often ask if we'll become frustrated by conserving the semen; but really one finds that in conserving the semen, sometimes we actually end up looking for ways to increase our sexual fire (strong sexual fire in itself is not necessarily lust, by the way) even more, through various herbs, eating red meat, etc.

But if we eat healthy (mostly organic or at least all natural), get plenty of exercise, and do transmutation practices regularly; we can balance everything and have a strong libido without succumbing to the affliction of lust, the latter of which we ought to transmute into chastity (not to be confused with celibacy).
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Re: Ojas (general discussion)

Postby Malcolm » Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:01 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:
And from what I've learned Semen/Suhkra can indeed be transmuted into Ojas; however that if semen sits untransmuted in the body for too long, it dies (i.e. no longer capable of creating life externally or internally), and would therefore become a waste product in this latter case.

Nevertheless, there is not necessarily any need to ejaculate it if it happens to become a waste product, because it will come out on its own with our urine during defecation, or even during urination alone. At the very least, Sukrha can also be absorbed back into and dissolved in the bloodstream.


You still fail to understand the different between a rāsa and a kita.

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Re: Ojas

Postby trevor » Thu Mar 29, 2012 6:26 pm

Namdrol wrote:...if you block or forcefuly prevent ejaculation, it will result in semen stones and impotence long term. It is bad for the health of your body. If the semen moves, you should just let it go. Sukra is a kitta (snyigs ma, waste product), it is an impurity to be expelled from the body, like it's female counterpart, menstrual tissue and the oocyte, like all the kittas in the process of digestion, for example, sweat, hair, nails, rectal grease, and so on.


I found that when there's no attachment to passion or bliss, then stimulation results in dry orgasm without ejaculation. How does that fit into the picture?
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Re: Ojas (general discussion)

Postby TenzinDorje » Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:20 pm

This is a very funny thread since talking about sex while in the head :smile:

I'm not an accomplished practitioner; what I've gleaned from my various daily practices, including water and fire offerings; short tsog at meals; is that any pleasurable sensations may be an offering, especially multiplied as emptiness and so forth. Perhaps it's too simplistic to say that unpleasurable sensation/experience (suffering) is for requests and pleasurable sensation/experience (bliss) for offerings...
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