Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:53 pm

Was referring to specific Kumbhaka's, not in general.

Although yeah, you always hold the breath with Kumbhaka.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Virgo » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:54 pm

alwayson wrote:
This is widely published in unrestricted books off of Amazon. It ain't a secret.

You need personal instructions from a lama, or you risk messing up your winds pretty badly (dangerous and bad for your health), as well as other things.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby treehuggingoctopus » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:55 pm

alwayson wrote:kumbhaka simply means holding your breath


By no means it does.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:56 pm

alwayson wrote:
Pero wrote:Just because you can read some things in public books doesn't mean that practitioners can speak about them publicly. Someone (perhaps back on E-Sangha) made an example that if your teacher tells you to keep secret that the sun rises every morning then you don't tell that to anyone or something in that sense.


My understanding is that the only secrets you need to keep are the ones that are not public.

I believe Namdrol said this, but I could be wrong.

I doubt very much he said this and if he did he's just wrong. If those were the only secrets needed to be kept then there wouldn't be practically anything to keep these days haha. :smile:
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Mr. G » Tue Dec 06, 2011 8:59 pm

alwayson wrote:
Mr. G wrote:
It's more than holding one's breath.



I think you mean that Kumbhaka is an essential part of more complex practices like trul khor, tummo etc.


Agreed, while qualifying that holding the breath is part of Kumbhaka
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby alwayson » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:00 pm

treehuggingoctopus wrote:
alwayson wrote:kumbhaka simply means holding your breath


By no means it does.



Lets not conflate kumbhaka with the more complex practices in which it is an essential component.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby alwayson » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:01 pm

Mr. G wrote:Agreed, while qualifying that holding the breath is part of Kumbhaka



Actually there are various kinds of kumbhaka even in Vajrayana.

The only essential feature is holding the breath.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Malcolm » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:03 pm

alwayson wrote:The only essential feature is holding the breath.



Well, how is also essential, If you hold your breath the wrong way, you can give yourself many serious illnesses.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Mr. G » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:04 pm

alwayson wrote:
Mr. G wrote:Agreed, while qualifying that holding the breath is part of Kumbhaka



Actually there are various kinds of kumbhaka even in Vajrayana.

The only essential feature is holding the breath.


Of course. And holding the breath is the main feature of Kumbhaka - but there's more to it than that, or else one could just pick it up from a book.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Pero » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:04 pm

5 year olds can hold their breath. It doesn't mean they're doing kumbhaka. Even if somewhere kumbhaka can also mean to simply hold your breath, it doesn't mean that here so it's irrelevant.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Mr. G » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:05 pm

Namdrol wrote:
alwayson wrote:The only essential feature is holding the breath.



Well, how is also essential, If you hold your breath the wrong way, you can give yourself many serious illnesses.


Yes. I met one Sakya practitioner that had to cut their retreat short and see a Tibetan Doctor. Not good.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby alwayson » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:06 pm

Namdrol wrote:If you hold your breath the wrong way, you can give yourself many serious illnesses.


Of course one needs personal instruction, transmission, guidance etc.

I'm not saying otherwise.
Last edited by alwayson on Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Paul » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:07 pm

Virgo wrote:
alwayson wrote:
This is widely published in unrestricted books off of Amazon. It ain't a secret.

You need personal instructions from a lama, or you risk messing up your winds pretty badly (dangerous and bad for your health), as well as other things.

Kevin


Yep. Buddhism can be tediously conservative about some teachings and how they can be somehow dangerous for the student, but in the case of pranayama it's 100% true. You can seriously mess yourself up, triggering chronic pain, psychosis or other kinds of problems.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_syndrome
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby mint » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:13 pm

Paul wrote:
Virgo wrote:
alwayson wrote:
This is widely published in unrestricted books off of Amazon. It ain't a secret.

You need personal instructions from a lama, or you risk messing up your winds pretty badly (dangerous and bad for your health), as well as other things.

Kevin


Yep. Buddhism can be tediously conservative about some teachings and how they can be somehow dangerous for the student, but in the case of pranayama it's 100% true. You can seriously mess yourself up, triggering chronic pain, psychosis or other kinds of problems.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_syndrome


Talk about Middle Way.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Paul » Tue Dec 06, 2011 9:35 pm

Tsoknyi Rinpoche says that a lot of practices are aimed at sharpening up and making the practitioner more alert. The thing is, that's for Tibetans & Indians who are used to living at a much more relaxed pace and are naturally more sedate as a result. People living in Europe or the Americas have nervous systems that are naturally hyper and, if anything, need to concentrate totally on relaxing.

Alan Wallace makes the same point and that gentle vase breathing is good, but much more than that is getting risky.

Actually, one of Wallace's teachers, Ananda Maitreya managed to damage himself with pranayama. A Hindu yoga expert eventually fixed him up, but the 'sickness' sounded like a very unpleasant experience.
This nature of mind is spontaneously present.
That spontaneity I was told is the dakini aspect.
Recognizing this should help me
Not to be stuck with fear of being sued.

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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Konchog1 » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:12 pm

Paul wrote:Tsoknyi Rinpoche says that a lot of practices are aimed at sharpening up and making the practitioner more alert. The thing is, that's for Tibetans & Indians who are used to living at a much more relaxed pace and are naturally more sedate as a result. People living in Europe or the Americas have nervous systems that are naturally hyper and, if anything, need to concentrate totally on relaxing.
So the fact that practice increases rlung is at least somewhat on purpose? Interesting.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Stewart » Tue Dec 06, 2011 10:43 pm

Alwayson said:[*]

Of course one needs personal instruction, transmission, guidance etc.

I'm not saying otherwise.


Nice back track there! :emb:

I guessing you have never received detailed instructions on these practices, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a uninformed, throw away comment.

Personal guidance is essential, otherwise anyone could just 'hold their breath' there are dangers and mistakes easily made.
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Paul » Tue Dec 06, 2011 11:17 pm

Konchog1 wrote:
Paul wrote:Tsoknyi Rinpoche says that a lot of practices are aimed at sharpening up and making the practitioner more alert. The thing is, that's for Tibetans & Indians who are used to living at a much more relaxed pace and are naturally more sedate as a result. People living in Europe or the Americas have nervous systems that are naturally hyper and, if anything, need to concentrate totally on relaxing.
So the fact that practice increases rlung is at least somewhat on purpose? Interesting.


Sometimes you need more, sometimes you need less. It depends on your personal circumstances. I guess it's like some people are over weight and some people are underweight. It's best to be healthily in the middle.
This nature of mind is spontaneously present.
That spontaneity I was told is the dakini aspect.
Recognizing this should help me
Not to be stuck with fear of being sued.

-Dzongsar Khyentse Rinpoche
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby dakini_boi » Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:39 pm

Konchog1 wrote:So the fact that practice increases rlung is at least somewhat on purpose? Interesting.

It's meant to increase alertness, not to induce rlung disorder. when we say someone has rlung, generally we mean that they have an imbalance in the wind element. For someone who is naturally very sedate, stimulating the wind element will not necessarily produce rlung (disorder).
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Re: Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

Postby Lhug-Pa » Wed Dec 07, 2011 10:30 pm

Please also note that on Thursday, 12/8,  Rinpoche will be webcasting his 8am birthday Mandarava Long-Life practice from Tenerife, Canary Islands. ***This will be at 3am in New York City.***

http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webcast/

The Mandarava Ganapuja with Rinpoche in webcast was rescheduled at 10:00am (GMT+0) of the same day (Dec 8th).   Bye, The Webcast Team  

------------------------ webcast@shangshunginstitute.org info@shangshunginstitute.org
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