Dzogchen Community of Chogyal Namkhai Norbu

[Lhug-Pa]

Was referring to specific Kumbhaka's, not in general.

Although yeah, you always hold the breath with Kumbhaka.

[Virgo]

This is widely published in unrestricted books off of Amazon. It ain't a secret.

You need personal instructions from a lama, or you risk messing up your winds pretty badly (dangerous and bad for your health), as well as other things.

Kevin

[treehuggingoctopus]

kumbhaka simply means holding your breath

By no means it does.

[Pero]

Just because you can read some things in public books doesn't mean that practitioners can speak about them publicly. Someone (perhaps back on E-Sangha) made an example that if your teacher tells you to keep secret that the sun rises every morning then you don't tell that to anyone or something in that sense.

My understanding is that the only secrets you need to keep are the ones that are not public.

I believe Namdrol said this, but I could be wrong.

I doubt very much he said this and if he did he's just wrong. If those were the only secrets needed to be kept then there wouldn't be practically anything to keep these days haha.

[Mr. G]

It's more than holding one's breath.

I think you mean that Kumbhaka is an essential part of more complex practices like trul khor, tummo etc.

Agreed, while qualifying that holding the breath is part of Kumbhaka

[alwayson]

kumbhaka simply means holding your breath

By no means it does.

Lets not conflate kumbhaka with the more complex practices in which it is an essential component.

[alwayson]

Agreed, while qualifying that holding the breath is part of Kumbhaka

Actually there are various kinds of kumbhaka even in Vajrayana.

The only essential feature is holding the breath.

[Malcolm]

The only essential feature is holding the breath.

Well, how is also essential, If you hold your breath the wrong way, you can give yourself many serious illnesses.

[Mr. G]

Agreed, while qualifying that holding the breath is part of Kumbhaka

Actually there are various kinds of kumbhaka even in Vajrayana.

The only essential feature is holding the breath.

Of course. And holding the breath is the main feature of Kumbhaka - but there's more to it than that, or else one could just pick it up from a book.

[Pero]

5 year olds can hold their breath. It doesn't mean they're doing kumbhaka. Even if somewhere kumbhaka can also mean to simply hold your breath, it doesn't mean that here so it's irrelevant.

[Mr. G]

The only essential feature is holding the breath.

Well, how is also essential, If you hold your breath the wrong way, you can give yourself many serious illnesses.

Yes. I met one Sakya practitioner that had to cut their retreat short and see a Tibetan Doctor. Not good.

[alwayson]

If you hold your breath the wrong way, you can give yourself many serious illnesses.

Of course one needs personal instruction, transmission, guidance etc.

I'm not saying otherwise.

[Paul]

This is widely published in unrestricted books off of Amazon. It ain't a secret.

You need personal instructions from a lama, or you risk messing up your winds pretty badly (dangerous and bad for your health), as well as other things.

Kevin

Yep. Buddhism can be tediously conservative about some teachings and how they can be somehow dangerous for the student, but in the case of pranayama it's 100% true. You can seriously mess yourself up, triggering chronic pain, psychosis or other kinds of problems.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_syndrome

[mint]

This is widely published in unrestricted books off of Amazon. It ain't a secret.

You need personal instructions from a lama, or you risk messing up your winds pretty badly (dangerous and bad for your health), as well as other things.

Kevin

Yep. Buddhism can be tediously conservative about some teachings and how they can be somehow dangerous for the student, but in the case of pranayama it's 100% true. You can seriously mess yourself up, triggering chronic pain, psychosis or other kinds of problems.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundalini_syndrome

Talk about Middle Way.

[Paul]

Tsoknyi Rinpoche says that a lot of practices are aimed at sharpening up and making the practitioner more alert. The thing is, that's for Tibetans & Indians who are used to living at a much more relaxed pace and are naturally more sedate as a result. People living in Europe or the Americas have nervous systems that are naturally hyper and, if anything, need to concentrate totally on relaxing.

Alan Wallace makes the same point and that gentle vase breathing is good, but much more than that is getting risky.

Actually, one of Wallace's teachers, Ananda Maitreya managed to damage himself with pranayama. A Hindu yoga expert eventually fixed him up, but the 'sickness' sounded like a very unpleasant experience.

[Konchog1]

Tsoknyi Rinpoche says that a lot of practices are aimed at sharpening up and making the practitioner more alert. The thing is, that's for Tibetans & Indians who are used to living at a much more relaxed pace and are naturally more sedate as a result. People living in Europe or the Americas have nervous systems that are naturally hyper and, if anything, need to concentrate totally on relaxing.

So the fact that practice increases rlung is at least somewhat on purpose? Interesting.

[Stewart]

Alwayson said:[*]

Of course one needs personal instruction, transmission, guidance etc.

I'm not saying otherwise.

Nice back track there!

I guessing you have never received detailed instructions on these practices, otherwise you wouldn't have made such a uninformed, throw away comment.

Personal guidance is essential, otherwise anyone could just 'hold their breath' there are dangers and mistakes easily made.

[Paul]

Tsoknyi Rinpoche says that a lot of practices are aimed at sharpening up and making the practitioner more alert. The thing is, that's for Tibetans & Indians who are used to living at a much more relaxed pace and are naturally more sedate as a result. People living in Europe or the Americas have nervous systems that are naturally hyper and, if anything, need to concentrate totally on relaxing.

So the fact that practice increases rlung is at least somewhat on purpose? Interesting.

Sometimes you need more, sometimes you need less. It depends on your personal circumstances. I guess it's like some people are over weight and some people are underweight. It's best to be healthily in the middle.

[dakini_boi]

So the fact that practice increases rlung is at least somewhat on purpose? Interesting.

It's meant to increase alertness, not to induce rlung disorder. when we say someone has rlung, generally we mean that they have an imbalance in the wind element. For someone who is naturally very sedate, stimulating the wind element will not necessarily produce rlung (disorder).

[Lhug-Pa]

Please also note that on Thursday, 12/8,  Rinpoche will be webcasting his 8am birthday Mandarava Long-Life practice from Tenerife, Canary Islands. ***This will be at 3am in New York City.***

http://www.shangshunginstitute.net/webcast/

The Mandarava Ganapuja with Rinpoche in webcast was rescheduled at 10:00am (GMT+0) of the same day (Dec 8th).   Bye, The Webcast Team  

------------------------ webcast@shangshunginstitute.org info@shangshunginstitute.org