gad rgyangs wrote:btw i am born Catholic, baptised and confirmed. i dont consider myself a christian but ill say again: its all-good in the expanse.
Then, no problem. As far as they are concerend, you are still Catholic.
N
gad rgyangs wrote:btw i am born Catholic, baptised and confirmed. i dont consider myself a christian but ill say again: its all-good in the expanse.
You're right. And you may have saved me a lot of time and energy. Why worry with learning anything more about Buddhism - much less Tibetan Buddhism? i obviously can just continue being a practicing Catholic while learning Dzogchen from Namkhai Norbu.Mr. G wrote:And I repeat: If everything is the display of wisdom, and/or ornaments of the primordial state, then conscience concerning what?
You've thorougly missed the points in this threadmint wrote:You're right. And you may have saved me a lot of time and energy. Why worry with learning anything more about Buddhism - much less Tibetan Buddhism? i obviously can just continue being a practicing Catholic while learning Dzogchen from Namkhai Norbu.Mr. G wrote:And I repeat: If everything is the display of wisdom, and/or ornaments of the primordial state, then conscience concerning what?
mint wrote: You're right. And you may have saved me a lot of time and energy. Why worry with learning anything more about Buddhism - much less Tibetan Buddhism? i obviously can just continue being a practicing Catholic while learning Dzogchen from Namkhai Norbu.
Everything is a display of wisdom.alwayson wrote:
Unlike protestants, I thought Catholics have to go to confession before communion?
So how can you be a practicing Catholic?
For the Dzogchenpa who has genuinely acquired that POV, yes.mint wrote:Everything is a display of wisdom.alwayson wrote:
Unlike protestants, I thought Catholics have to go to confession before communion?
So how can you be a practicing Catholic?
Then I'm in good company.Mr. G wrote:For the Dzogchenpa who has genuinely acquired that POV, yes.mint wrote:
Everything is a display of wisdom.
As long as you're sincerely pursuing the study and practice of Dzogchen, yes.mint wrote:Then I'm in good company.Mr. G wrote:For the Dzogchenpa who has genuinely acquired that POV, yes.mint wrote:
Everything is a display of wisdom.
At some point, if you experience it yourself... you'll have to see that the state which dzogchen reveals is the same state which causes the few catholics(or persons of whatever denominations) who experience it to say "i've seen god". And that state is prior to thoughts and concepts which would place it into a certain belief system. You have to 'believe' catholicism. What dzogchen points to requires no belief. The visualizations of Garab Dorje or Padmasambhava or what have you... dakinis and all the rest of it are all supportive practices (not to be reified as truly existing objective elements of experience like catholicism projects) which are implemented to take you to the culmination or reveal the state in its fullness. And the culmination or a small taste of it will knock your socks off. In that state the notion of you being an individual in relation to a belief system with rules and regulations will be seen for what they are, which are mere constructs in mind. As a subject relating to an object you partake in catholicism and abide by it's teachings, you identify with concepts, ideas, thoughts, notions which construct your experience to be a certain way. But if dzogchen is applied earnestly and correctly, it will annihilate the concreteness of these subject/object dichotomies... and as others were saying in this thread, the concepts, ideas, thoughts, notions (which ARE catholicism) will be ornaments of that state.. they'll BE that state... timeless, unborn, undying. And yes you'd still be free to partake in catholicism (or any activity for that matter... worship satan.. whatever) you'd be swimming in yourself... and even that is a misleading notion. I'm not sure if you grasp the monumental degree of this teaching but until it's experienced it will remain on the level with catholicism as a nice idea.mint wrote:
Everything is a display of wisdom.
I get that - now.asunthatneversets wrote:and as others were saying in this thread, the concepts, ideas, thoughts, notions (which ARE catholicism) will be ornaments of that state.. they'll BE that state... timeless, unborn, undying. And yes you'd still be free to partake in catholicism (or any activity for that matter... worship satan.. whatever) you'd be swimming in yourself...
Why should I grasp the monumental degree of this teaching? I've not even received transmission.and even that is a misleading notion. I'm not sure if you grasp the monumental degree of this teaching but until it's experienced it will remain on the level with catholicism as a nice idea.
You're saying we don't know enough about Catholicism to talk about it. Hasn't it occured to you that it is you whose knowledge of Catholicism could be somewhat limited?mint wrote:There doesn't seem to be enough knowledge on this board about Catholicism to wage a fair debate on this point, though.
Delusion of a delusion.treehuggingoctopus wrote:You're saying we don't know enough about Catholicism to talk about it. Hasn't it occured to you that it is you whose knowledge of Catholicism could be somewhat limited?mint wrote:There doesn't seem to be enough knowledge on this board about Catholicism to wage a fair debate on this point, though.
This is not brief, but some clarification is needed:kalden yungdrung wrote:- What could be in brief the defenition of a Catholic ?
I'm still learning. My basic understanding is that it is a person who receives introduction from a qualified master and devotes his/her energy to discovering and maintaining the primordial nature.- What could be in brief the defenition of a Dzogchenpa ?
There could potentially be some correlation between the primordial state and the beatific vision. Except, a Catholic and a Dzogchenpa would definitely disagree on when those occur.- What could be in brief the similarities between a Dzogchenpa and a Catholic?
Quite a few things.- What don' t they share at all ?
It elucidates you are still very far away from having at least an intellectual grasp about Dzogchen, that's for sure!For the Dzogchenpa, the individual is the end in himself.
Dechen Norbu wrote:It elucidates you are still very far away from having at least an intellectual grasp about Dzogchen, that's for sure!
Then nothing much has changed in 20 years.Dechen Norbu wrote:Seriously, take your time. You beat yourself up too much.