End Times NWO stuff

[padma norbu]

Found more about Rosicrucians discussing the baptism of fire and quoting several verses in the Bible. Interesting. Basically "spirit born of fire" refers to a spiritual baptism, the sort which apparently happened to people like Jesus.

[padma norbu]

I was this close to joining AMORC... since their headquarters is right here in Manhattan, but instead opted to join a highly-recommended mail course of BOTA instead, feeling that I didn't really want to get too close to these weirdos (AMORC is also a mail course, btw, but they have a place right near Union Square, too). Well, after a couple years, next thing you know I was attending their events at the Masonic Hall on 23rd street and went on to rub elbows with local A.'.A.'. and OTO members. The opinion of the AA/OTO members is that BOTA and AMORC are not really that great because they don't tell you all the secrets or you have to wait way too long. Paul Foster Case wrote the book "True And Invisible Rosicrucian Order" and I have the book, so BOTA was certainly AMORC-friendly.

Heruka, if you know something I don't about spirit born of fire, which I may have merely forgotten, please let me know via PM or something. I went through a "chaos magic" phase where I experimented with all sorts of things and the technique was basically "set it and forget it." In other words, I intentionally forgot what I did. I am an initiate of BOTA, which is supposedly a life-long commitment, so I am connected with their egregore even though I haven't paid dues in years.

[Lhug-Pa]

I'll try to reply here more later when having access to a better keyboard; but for now, Max Heindel is NOT "AMORC". "AMORC" is a black lodge that was founded by Spencer Lewis.

The Rosicrucian Fellowship teachings of Max Heindel are much more in alignment with those of Rudolf Steiner (Misraim Rite Gnostic Masonry), Huiracocha (F.R.A.), Samael Aun Weor (F.R.A.-influenced), Dion Fortune (old school Golden Dawn of S.L. MacGregor Mathers and Wynn Westcott), and Manly P. Hall (who was a true Masonic Adept, which is why many contemporary materialist Freemasons criticize him so much).

[Lhug-Pa]

The authentic O.T.O. teachings are the teachings of Huiracocha and Franz Hartmann (not Bardon).

All those O.T.O. lodges who follow Aleister Crowley's teachings are black lodges.

Anyhow, Manly P.Hall and Huiracocha gave the most advanced teachings on Gnostic Rosicrucian Alchemical Fire Baptism. Read the former's short books called Hermetic Marriage and Melchizedek and the Mystery of Fire. They both agree with Samael Aun Weor's teachings 100%.

In fact, some very interesting links found in this quote from Arnold Krumm-Heller (Huiracocha):

http://gnostic-community.org/forum/view ... 10&#p11362

Manly P. Hall did write in his book on Tarot that Paul Foster Case's books are worthy of attention. Manly P. Hall also mentioned Papus without really saying anything positive or negative about him. Now Aleister Crowley's teachings are from the lineage of Papus and Jules Doinel from what I understand.

Samael Aun Weor wrote that the teachings of Papus are legitimate black magic; but Samael Aun Weor referred on the other hand to Manly P. Hall 33° as a very Wise Kabbalist.

[Malcolm]

Honestly, who cares about any of this stuff?

N

[Lhug-Pa]

Haha I knew you were going to say something like that.

Yeah I try not to get caught up in it too much these days, although it's interesting to talk about sometimes, and if I happen to be around when people are talking about it I don't mind sharing what I've learned.

Anyway, I'd better get back to cleaning the house and studying The Precious Vase.

[Malcolm]

Haha I knew you were going to say something like that.

I mean, it is silly, calling Crowley's OTO a "black lodge" and so on. Crowley was the single most important and influential occultist of the 20th century. All this stuff and nonsense about white and black lodges amounts to nothing more than various occultists calling each other names because they disagreed.

If they had any common sense they would have all just become buddhists.

N

[Lhug-Pa]

I mean, it is silly, calling Crowley's OTO a "black lodge" and so on. Crowley was the single most important and influential occultist of the 20th century. All this stuff and nonsense about white and black lodges amounts to nothing more than various occultists calling each other names because they disagreed.

It's not about what they disagreed about so much, as it is about what they actually practiced. Although if I mention why Aleister Crowley's "X°" and "XI°" rituals are black here, the mods will most likely delete my post.

As I've said, as for the 20th century the work of Rudolf Steiner, Huiracocha, Dion Fortune, Max Heindel, Samael Aun Weor, and Manly P. Hall, is all more relevant than Aleister Crowley's.

If they had any common sense they would have all just become buddhists.

N

Some of them did become Buddhist. From what I understand H.P. Blavatsky and Henry Steele Olcott took Refuge (and H.P.B's The Voice of the Silence was approved of by the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama). Samael Aun Weor must have taken Refuge too, although I don't recall reading anything about him formally doing so.

They take Pratimoksha vows in the Gnostic Lumisial Chambers (the Three Chambers are akin to the original 'Blue Lodge' Degrees or the Three Chambers of any Ancient Temple of 'Mysteries').

[Blue Garuda]

Haha I knew you were going to say something like that.

I mean, it is silly, calling Crowley's OTO a "black lodge" and so on. Crowley was the single most important and influential occultist of the 20th century. All this stuff and nonsense about white and black lodges amounts to nothing more than various occultists calling each other names because they disagreed.

If they had any common sense they would have all just become buddhists.

N

I agree about his importance, although Waite and Mathers would probably not have agreed.

As for Buddhism, several including Crowley included it within their study and practices, but not to the extent of the Theosophical Society and its Esoteric Section in earlier times, with figures such as Olcott.

In Crowley's novel 'Moonchild' I wondered if the figure of Simon Iff may well represent the personification of Buddhism as seen by Crowley. Crowley himself at one time sought to tame his self-cherishing by cutting himself whenever he use the word 'I'.

[Dechen Norbu]

Haha I knew you were going to say something like that.

I mean, it is silly, calling Crowley's OTO a "black lodge" and so on. Crowley was the single most important and influential occultist of the 20th century. All this stuff and nonsense about white and black lodges amounts to nothing more than various occultists calling each other names because they disagreed.

If they had any common sense they would have all just become buddhists.

N

Exactly. But with egos sizable to mountains, that would be difficult. Everyone wants to be a master, an avatar, a messiah, a bodhisattva, you name it, without spending many, many years as a simple student.
Besides, all those pagan revivalist movement come from poorly understood Hinduism, Buddhism, Judaism and early Christianity, plus loads of personal confabulation. It's like someone going to Tibet or India for holidays and coming back thinking he is a lama or a sadhu. Ridiculous.
Those para-religious movements are syncretic rugs of pseudo spirituality that I find pretty much useless. The more time passes, the worse they get, it seems. At least at the late XIX and turning of the XX century they had a few brilliant minds in their ranks, perhaps because nothing better was easily available and spirituality was a big fad. Today they are mainly composed of gullible people with diminished critical thinking abilities. Most are cults, some dangerous. It's waste, nothing more. People do well if they stay clear of those sects.

Regarding secret societies, fellows, do as everyone and blame the Bohemians of the grove. That does it.

[Lhug-Pa]

And these types of 'self immolation' practices like some Roman Catholic monks do are contrary to the teachings of the White Lodge & teachings of the Buddha.

Aleister Crowley also had some of his students physically cutting themselves too.

There's also another Dharmawheel thread here, I'll have to find it, where someone mentioned that Aleister Crowley ended up actually denouncing the teachings of the Buddha.

[mint]

The more time passes, the worse they get, it seems. At least at the late XIX and turning of the XX century they had a few brilliant minds in their ranks, perhaps because nothing better was easily available and spirituality was a big fad. Today they are mainly composed of gullible people with diminished critical thinking abilities. Most are cults, some dangerous. It's waste, nothing more. People do well if they stay clear of those sects.

I've typically found these type of "spiritual" fellows in new age, artsy college towns. At least the handful I've visited. I'd, of course, be interested in seeing a demographic on who, exactly, is most likely to be intrigued by these philosophies.

The kids seem to like to experiment with occultism along with their sex and MTV.

[Lhug-Pa]

Where's the STRAW-MAN emoticon when you need it?

It's not like we're talking about the teachings of Elizabeth Clare Prophet's group or Violet Flame group here, or something like that.

Although, I do think that the 'AMORC' fits the fast-food-'spirituality' bill.

[padma norbu]

Thought I would throw it out there and figured the responses would be about like this. No more commentary from me, then.

[Malcolm]

I mean, it is silly, calling Crowley's OTO a "black lodge" and so on. Crowley was the single most important and influential occultist of the 20th century. All this stuff and nonsense about white and black lodges amounts to nothing more than various occultists calling each other names because they disagreed.

It's not about what they disagreed about so much, as it is about what they actually practiced. Although if I mention why Aleister Crowley's "X°" and "XI°" rituals are black here, the mods will most likely delete my post.

As I've said, as for the 20th century the work of Rudolf Steiner, Huiracocha, Dion Fortune, Max Heindel, Samael Aun Weor, and Manly P. Hall, is all more relevant than Aleister Crowley's.

We will agree to disagree. As for tenth and eleventh degree, heterosexual intercourse and homesexual intercourse are nothing to be ashamed of, and are hardly "black". This is a sort of prudish Victorianism that Crowley righty ridiculed.

Some of them were Buddhist. From what I understand H.P. Blavatsky and Henry Steele Olcott took Refuge (and H.P.B's The Voice of the Silence was approved of by the Dalai Lama and the Panchen Lama).

Not likely, and Blatvatsky was a great fraud. In fact, they all were to some degree or another, Blavatsky, Westcott, Mathers, etc.

[Lhug-Pa]

Well we'll agree to disagree then Namdrol.

About H.P. Blavatsky:

viewtopic.php?f=77&t=5830#p65050

Thought I would throw it out there and figured the responses would be about like this. No more commentary from me, then.

Do you mean that you figured that this thread would mostly be met with skepticism?

If it means anything, I'm not completely skeptical about conspiracy topics. I just haven't talked about specific aspects much yet. I did skip around a bit on those YouTube videos. They are fairly interesting. No comment yet, for right now anyway though.

[Lhug-Pa]

Although to clarify, Namdrol, Heterosexual Sex is the Crux of Daath or Da'ath, the Hermetic Marriage or Fire Baptism (Schamayim) related to the Gnostic method regarding the creation of the Solar Bodies through Karmamudra.

So I was mostly referring to only one of those two said "Aleister Crowley degrees".

This being said, Heterosexual Sex is certainly a good thing (and I mean good as in objectively good, not "good" as in anything related to subjective moral conditioning or lack thereof).

[padma norbu]

Well we'll agree to disagree then Namdrol.

About H.P. Blavatsky:

http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.ph ... 830#p65050

Thought I would throw it out there and figured the responses would be about like this. No more commentary from me, then.

Do you mean that you figured that this thread would mostly be met with skepticism?

If it means anything, I'm not completely skeptical about conspiracy topics. I just haven't talked about specific aspects much yet. I did skip around a bit on those YouTube videos. They are fairly interesting. No comment yet, for right now anyway though.

You got it. Everyone's an expert on everything, kinda funny. I'd ask what extent everyone's familiarity is with brainwashing and secret societies on this thread, but I already know the answer. Hearsay and none (that they are aware of).

[Blue Garuda]

Not likely, and Blatvatsky was a great fraud. In fact, they all were to some degree or another, Blavatsky, Westcott, Mathers, etc.

Please don't mince your words.


You omitted Olcott in your bashing of the dead.

My experience of having examined the works of Blavatsky is that, like the rest of us, she had delusions but was essentially sincere and amazingly intelligent. The members of the extant Esoteric Section of the TS seem sincere and intelligent enough, too.

[Dechen Norbu]

Ill informed too, don't forget that part.

When Buddhism traveled to the West and became more accessible, all TS orientalist teachings became utterly obsolete. There you find misconceptions one after another, poor interpretations, confusion, crude mistakes, you name it. That is widely known.

All the occult and esoteric sects I know, and I spent a few years looking, are rubbish. My brother went deep in this sort of stuff and I ended up having a lot of access to books, practitioners and so on and so forth, plus some information that is not easy to come by. In the end it's rubbish. Philosophically shoddy and intellectually poor. The methods are sterile and lead nowhere (although the psychiatric ward is always a possible end).