Namdrol wrote:Reality i.e. suchness, emptiness, etc., is not conditioned.
Do you mean they are unconditioned?
Yes, of course the reality of things is unconditioned, since it is not a product. Anything which is a product is by definition is conditioned; anything which is not a product is unconditioned.
I said that things arise in dependence i.e. dependently, because of the reality of things i.e. the reality of things being emptiess free from extremes.
In other words, it is due to the reality of things (which you assert are not conditioned, which I'm wondering if you mean unconditioned like space), that things arise in dependence.
In other words, like space, the reality of things is not a product. Emptiness, suchness and so on are not produced, etc., it is in that sense along that we consider the reality of things "unconditioned".
If you say that emptiness is unconditioned, then you have to explain how it has some kind of causal functionality which allows things to arise in dependence.
Emptiness is not an efficient cause, but it is a formal cause, like space. In other words, if things were not empty, they could not arise since they would have to exist; the arising of the existent is a contradiction in terms.
If you agree that suchness is neither conditioned nor unconditioned, then there is no disagreement. If you're saying that suchness is unconditioned (like empty space), then I will disagree.
Sucness is not a product, therefore, it is unproduced. Whatever is unproduced is not subject to conditions. Whatever is not subject to conditions is, by strict definition, unconditioned.
If you deny that suchness is unconditioned, you also disagree with the Madhyamaka school. For example the Tarkajvala states:
"The unconditioned is the two cessations, space and suchness"
The unconditioned is analytical cessation and non-analytical cessation, space and suchness. Analytical cessation is discriminating wisdom i.e. having analyzed and extinguished the evident afflictions, that analysis and cessation is given the name "nirvana". Non-analytical cessation is when a given thing is never separate from cessation by any means. Space opens up room and has the characteristic of being unobstructed. Suchness previously did not exist, nor come to not exist through destruction, is not [presently] mutually dependent and has no basis. Those four are permanent because their nature is unchanging.
I am afraid that trying prove that idea that suchness is niether conditioned nor unconditioned is fraught with definitional flaws.
Suchness is not a product, therefore, it is included among among unconditioned phenomena, like space and the two cessations.