Moderator: Tibetan Buddhism moderators
Luke wrote:mr. gordo wrote:The lack of prostrations is not uncommon among some Dzogchen students and teachers.
Is this a modern development? Or did many ancient Dzogchen masters not prostrate either?
mr. gordo wrote:The lack of prostrations is not uncommon among some Dzogchen students and teachers.
Pema Rigdzin wrote:muni wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M01zhcd6ulI
See what prostration does with own stream of being, my two cents.
Oh wow, I was at those teachings with those sublime beings.
Nangwa wrote:I know Gelug lama's who forbid their students from prostrating to them unless its in the context of a major empowerment.
Pema Rigdzin wrote:I have several Dzogchen lamas and have been fortunate enough receive teachings from others still who are also Dzogchenpas and every single one of them always prostrates to the 3 Jewels and 3 Roots when entering the shrine room. These lamas are from different monasteries from all over Tibet. I've never before heard of any Dzogchen lama doing any different. Even one of my root lamas who is recognized as a master of Dzogchen does his best to prostrate even though he practically has no cartilage left in his old, arthritic knees.
catmoon wrote:Don't get stuck on the holiness stuff, after all, it's their practice.
catmoon wrote:If they came in and burned the place down, then peed on the ashes, so what? The Buddhas are not harmed.
catmoon wrote:Next, wish the lama and his students well. May they swiftly find enlightenment. And may you derive great merit from your gift of a place for study and teaching.
Luke wrote:I think it's interesting that the biggest divisions in the present-day Vajrayana community are not between the different schools of Tibetan Buddhism, but are between those sanghas who practice in a more traditional way and those who do not.
Luke wrote:It's not so much a matter of "holiness" as it is a matter of respect. Prostrations may seem very "holy-looking" to westerners when they first see them, but after you see people do them enough times, it becomes pretty ordinary (and therefore, this is why the absence of them feels so strange). It's sort of like a man not offering to shake hands in a handshaking culture.
I wonder why any true Dzgochen master would not prostrate?
catmoon wrote:It kind of makes one wonder if they were casing the joint for gold...
Luke wrote:catmoon wrote:It kind of makes one wonder if they were casing the joint for gold...
They didn't do anything unethical. Most of them seemed friendly and they really enjoyed their master's teaching.
Their recruiting method was very smooth: a man gave me a piece of chocolate...and then tried to get my name and phone number for their contact list. It was like a political campaign or something.
My sangha never actively recruits people; we let them come to us instead.
The sadhana the lama was teaching did seem quite wonderful and extraordinary, but I really wonder how many people can benefit from a completion stage sadhana if they haven't yet completed--or even started--the generation stage.