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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:21 pm 
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Hi friends,

Buddhism is such as challenge for me. I love everything its stands for but i find it challenges my comfort zone. I think its fair to say my comfort zone is my EGO. My EGO, the program that has been running in my head is not used to being challenged and finds the practice of buddhism makes it feel insecure. The things thats so hard is the practice of living in this way.

My EGO tells me that i am being false/fake. It tells me i am boring and flat. its so strange. i am naturally a lively ethusiastic character.

i dont want to lose the happy vibrant me. i dont think the practice takes this away. i think my EGO makes me feel like this.


I am early in my practice, has anyone else experienced this when they first started practising.

Thanks,

Ryu :smile:


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:50 pm 
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ryu wrote:
Hi friends,

Buddhism is such as challenge for me. I love everything its stands for but i find it challenges my comfort zone.


Yes. And it never stops.

N

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:10 pm 
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ryu wrote:
My EGO tells me that i am being false/fake. has anyone else experienced this when they first started practising.

Thanks,

Ryu :smile:


yes, i found a teacher, went on retreat and and was shown that i am a fake. but held in the arms of Great Compassion all the same. without a teacher, i'd be in a far worse condition.

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All beings since their first aspiration till the attainment of Buddhahood are sheltered under the guardianship of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas who, responding to the requirements of the occasion, transform themselves and assume the actual forms of personality.

Thus for the sake of all beings Buddhas and Bodhisattvas become sometimes their parents, sometimes their wives and children, sometimes their kinsmen, sometimes their servants, sometimes their friends, sometimes their enemies, sometimes reveal themselves as devas or in some other forms.


- Ashvaghosa, The Awakening of Faith

oroka


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:30 pm 
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dumbbombu wrote:
yes, i found a teacher, went on retreat and and was shown that i am a fake. but held in the arms of Great Compassion all the same. without a teacher, i'd be in a far worse condition.


My experience has been this way as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 3:43 pm 
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i hope that you will find that inspite of the pain, life can be very rewarding. Buddhism is a very rich path to follow. have a good journey and dont give up.

best wishes, Tom.

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in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:11 pm 
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"Failing to notice my own shortcomings,
Pretending to be spiritual, I am anything but.
Naturally skilled in negative emotions and karma,
Again and again good intentions arise, again and again they come to naught.
Guru think of me, regard me with compassion.
Bless me that I might see my own faults."

from Calling the Guru from Afar, Jamgon Kongtrul Lodro Thaye, tr. by Erik Pema Kunzang

http://www.kcc.org/resources/crying_to_ ... _from_afar

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"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 5:40 pm 
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In time my body of illusion will decay
It's better to practise the Dharma without delay
To fulfill the thorough-going abandonment
Needs time for hetu-pratyaya
Give me five years to build my atalaya
And put in order my family affairs
To earn and save and do repairs
And to enjoy my comfort zone flairs
Then I'll open the Buddhist door
But could I live for five years more?

Just a poem.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:21 pm 
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Each of us, in outward bearing,
Makes a show of being wise, good, and dedicated;
But so great are our greed, anger, perversity, and deceit,
That we are filled with all forms of malice and cunning.

Extremely difficult is it to put an end to our evil nature;
The mind is like a venomous snake or scorpion.
Our performance of good acts is also poisoned;
Hence, it is called false and empty practice.

- Shinran

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    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:03 pm 
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There are two ways to look at this to my opinion.
One is faulted...we all are a bit
Something in the me.... the I..... sees always fault and as part of the me can never accept what one is to be not deficient. The inner reason for this may be quite comples but that this is in all I find fact.

So the question becomes where one personally is on the circle of life after birth and before death.

AS one gets older I think the second more predominates in the psyche. Younger the first.
In any event both are incomplete as they refernce a thing which is a construct, the me....which being a construct is never a perfect thing.
A buddha has no me really as we know it.
To my opinion it is not that a person becomes a perfect me, but that a buddha realizes the imperfection in the me and becomes other...awake.

this is my personal opinion.

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"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:34 pm 
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I like the idea of the buddha in me exposing my faults. waking me up from this world of delusion. maybe i should rejoice in the exposure and see this as a positive thing.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:28 pm 
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I agree generally...

if one likes to do a thing of that sort perhaps that is the best reason for doing that. It all depending upon ones circumstance.

If one has not really a strong self image, and is around peoples, doing perhaps untoward noncompassionate things, one may not have a circumstacne in which ones faults are what must be worked at. Maybe one should then look about what qualities one has and how one may have reason and purpose for being compassionate when others are not..

so it seems to all depend upon circumstance and inclination..certainly likeing is a part of this determination.

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"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:09 am 
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ryu wrote:
I like the idea of the buddha in me exposing my faults. waking me up from this world of delusion. maybe i should rejoice in the exposure and see this as a positive thing.


Love and light and positive self-affirmation is all very well, but it may not get you where you want to go.

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"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:02 am 
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:smile:
That is dificult...to give up the illusion of YOU...your EGO MIND...as being YOU and all else as being OTHER.
From the day you were born as a sentient being your Ego Mind...what you were taught to call YOU...has been trying to control your life.
It has been controlling you by trying to get you to accept the illusion that "I/me/myself" is "good", and "they/others/not me" is "bad".
If you buy into this false scam...this illusion...you will always be under the control of your Ego Mind...your Ego.
I know, I've been there myself.
But if you can see clearly...that this illusion generated by your Ego Mind is in fact false and merely an illusion...without any substance...then a whole new world of inter-dependence (if there is such a term) will open up.
Of course, you've no reason to believe me...and if you try, your Ego Mind will resist that attempt with all it's might.
Because your Ego Mind doesn't want to lose it's control over you. It is inherently selfish.
Please make the attempt.
Because as is said (in another much different context),
"Workers of the world arise! You have nothing to lose but your chains, and a world to gain".
Really, you do have another world to gain if you can overcome that illusion/delusion of Ego.
I've been there also...and seeing all things as inter-dependent....merely a part of one whole entity...is magnificent.
Hope you get there.
:smile:

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Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:03 am 
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That hardest thing/entity is the responsible for suffering, no comfort at all but if there is only knowing of the comfort of a prison, the prison holder is defended with hand and feet. Sneeky arising in thoughts......the imagined owner of naturally being.

We lose nothing.

Shechen Rabjam Rinpoche:
One day, as people walked past Mullah’s house they saw him madly thrashing around with a long stick.
“What are you doing?” they asked.
“I’m driving away lions,” replied Mullah.
“But there aren’t any lions,” they said, puzzled and rather amused.
“Yes,” said Mullah, triumphantly. ”It’s working!”

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 9:06 am 
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Quiet Heart wrote:
:smile:
That is dificult...to give up the illusion of YOU...your EGO MIND...as being YOU and all else as being OTHER.
From the day you were born as a sentient being your Ego Mind...what you were taught to call YOU...has been trying to control your life.
It has been controlling you by trying to get you to accept the illusion that "I/me/myself" is "good", and "they/others/not me" is "bad".
If you buy into this false scam...this illusion...you will always be under the control of your Ego Mind...your Ego.
I know, I've been there myself.
But if you can see clearly...that this illusion generated by your Ego Mind is in fact false and merely an illusion...without any substance...then a whole new world of inter-dependence (if there is such a term) will open up.
Of course, you've no reason to believe me...and if you try, your Ego Mind will resist that attempt with all it's might.
Because your Ego Mind doesn't want to lose it's control over you. It is inherently selfish.
Please make the attempt.
Because as is said (in another much different context),
"Workers of the world arise! You have nothing to lose but your chains, and a world to gain".
Really, you do have another world to gain if you can overcome that illusion/delusion of Ego.
I've been there also...and seeing all things as inter-dependent....merely a part of one whole entity...is magnificent.
Hope you get there.
:smile:

:good: A light on dark shadow.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 11:29 am 
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i can definately see why people may think Buddhism is a negative practice though.

Facing your ego, warts and all is very unsettling. I guess that once one gets over the realization that this is not YOU but your EGO then the misery turns to bliss and maybe thats where the real work starts and the end of suffering really begins to start.

The four noble truths....im gonna start peeling this onion called ego :smile:


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:21 pm 
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ryu wrote:
i can definately see why people may think Buddhism is a negative practice though.

Facing your ego, warts and all is very unsettling. I guess that once one gets over the realization that this is not YOU but your EGO then the misery turns to bliss and maybe thats where the real work starts and the end of suffering really begins to start.

The four noble truths....im gonna start peeling this onion called ego :smile:


Sure! if you are in the habit of valuing the make-believe world of spectacle in a positive way, then turning away from that nonsense and toward something as immediate and unsettling as the desert of the mindstream would seem like a self-destructive and foolish thing...

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:02 pm 
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Dear ryu,

The hardest thing is not a bad thing or a thing to lose, it is only misperception. Noble Truths :namaste:
This looks helpful to me:

http://www.pundarika.org/news/?p=1429#more-1429
http://www.pundarika.org/news/?p=1431#more-1431

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:27 pm 
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Dear ryu,

Please remember that your faults are not YOU. I find this very useful as it enables me to be very objective about my delusions. You can destroy your delusions without destroying you. You're not faulty, your delusions are, etc.

Don't take Buddhism, or yourself, too seriously. It's good to keep a light, joyful mind. The path takes time, so there's no need to push and rush, just allow the teachings to gently infuse you and change you naturally.

ENJOY!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 2:37 pm 
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Tsongkhapafan wrote:
Don't take Buddhism, or yourself, too seriously. It's good to keep a light, joyful mind. The path takes time, so there's no need to push and rush, just allow the teachings to gently infuse you and change you naturally.


This is good advice and applies to where I find myself currently. I'll probably forget it in 5 minutes, though.

I could really stand to miss a few meditation sessions, not buy and read a few books, and really just go crazy and not think about the Dharma for a few days in order to bring myself back down to this level where I don't take Buddhism, Dzogchen or myself so seriously. I feel like I have the added obstacle of not only being neurotic and delusional but also dogmatic and compartmentalized in my thinking. I try so hard to remember that, in the words of Chogyam Trungpa, that everything is hopeless, that there is nothing really to attain and nowhere really to go, but with my mountain-sized ego I don't really want to believe that, either. Samsara is too familiar and too comfortable.


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