Subjective & Objective Emptiness

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vinodh
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Subjective & Objective Emptiness

Postby vinodh » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:24 pm

Hi All,

I have been pondering about this lately. Buddhist philosophy speaks of Shunyata.

Is the Shunyataa Objective or Subjective ?

Or is the notion of Objectivity and Subjectivity, itself another form of Dvaya (Dualism), the distinction made, being false themselves ?

or am I just blabbering :crazy: :thinking:

V
http://www.virtualvinodh.com

yo dharmaṁ paśyati, sa buddhaṁ paśyati

One who sees the Dharma, sees the Buddha
śālistamba sūtra

na pudgalo na ca skandhā buddho jñānamanāsravam
sadāśāntiṁ vibhāvitvā gacchāmi śaraṇaṁ hyaham

Neither a person nor the aggregates, the Buddha, is knowledge free from [evil] outflows
Clearly perceiving [him] to be eternally serene, I go for refuge [in him]
saddharma-laṅkāvatāra-sūtra

alwayson
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Re: Subjective & Objective Emptiness

Postby alwayson » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:28 pm

To say an object is "empty" is synonymous with saying that thing is dependently originated.

Bundles of causes and conditions are designated by mere conceptual labels, which of course also applies to the causes and conditions themselves and even the principle of causality itself since everything is dependently originated (i.e. empty).

Paul
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Re: Subjective & Objective Emptiness

Postby Paul » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:52 pm

Mahayana sutras regularly speak of the notions of subject, object and action being completely false.
Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal

Asabandha
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Re: Subjective & Objective Emptiness

Postby Asabandha » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:44 pm

Sort of on topic: Am I understanding correctly that the meaning of mahamudra is that subjectivity and objectivity as well as ultimate truth and conventional truth all are seen to be one seamless extant reality? Sort of like the direct view of emptiness in action? Is it as simple as saying "pure, nonconceptual experience" -- or is this better characterized as rigpa from Dzogchen?

ground
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Re: Subjective & Objective Emptiness

Postby ground » Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:32 am

vinodh wrote:Is the Shunyataa Objective or Subjective ?


Shunyataa is empty of "Shunyataa".
Objective is empty of "Objective".
Subjective is empty of "Subjective".

These concepts are mere thought but even mere thought is empty of "thought" but it is not empty of experience. However experience, too, is empty of "experience".

Kind regards

Huifeng
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Re: Subjective & Objective Emptiness

Postby Huifeng » Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:17 pm

vinodh wrote:Hi All,

I have been pondering about this lately. Buddhist philosophy speaks of Shunyata.

Is the Shunyataa Objective or Subjective ?

Or is the notion of Objectivity and Subjectivity, itself another form of Dvaya (Dualism), the distinction made, being false themselves ?

or am I just blabbering :crazy: :thinking:

V


The term sunyata or sunya has a number of uses, in different contexts.
It is not always referring to the same issue or meaning.

Depends what kind of sunyata.
Sometimes the term refers to objects, sometimes to subjects.
Sometimes it is a subjective epistemological state, sometimes an objective ontological state.

~~ Huifeng


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