ronnewmexico wrote:Agree 100%.
To add personally I never fully understand a ceremony or teaching. So I participate and do such but never in full understanding.
Doing the best I can do, with limited mind body and circumstance.
I understand a bit of most ceremonies I have empowerment for and a bit of most I have participated in. So I always depend a bit on the lama, and their choice.
Certainly I have read as much as possible of a thing before doing a thing of ceremony many times. Finding not such writings in kagyu I have even gone to the extent of bon or other not recognized tibetan lineage to get a feel of a thing.
Using that as a base of knowledge when the teaching is actually offered I may get a bit of it in my understanding. Practiceing vajrasattave per example(I know this is not tosk )....I first did the english for many months then did the other then did the formal teaching...but I am a slow read.
Others I suspect may get complete understanding of these things, and come at it more naturally. I am glad they may do so.
Lamas generally will know who may do what, of their students and groups of students. I think they get a feel for the collective intelligence of a group. WE all learn such things it seems in groups as groups do. Wide open teachings to anyone perhaps being only of a more basic sort, not requireing speciality.
Karma Gendun wrote: For us ordinary beings meat and alcohol should not be used.
Karma Gendun wrote:Using meat and alcohol in tsok is highly debated. HH Karmapa does not want his students using meat and alcohol. The eight Karmapa Mikho Dorje said that anyone who uses meat in tsok is not part of the kagyu lineage. As well in words of my perfect teacher Patrul Rinpoche made it clear that meat from slaughtered animals should not be used by quoting Dharma Lord Gampopa, who Said tht offering meat to the wisdom deities was like killing a child and offering it to the mother. Similarly Karma Chagme Said meat is only for highly advanced practitioners who can liberate the animal, and transform alcohol. The alcohol is only for those who can change it ino Amrita. Just some food for thought. For us ordinary beings meat and alcohol should not be used.
Tantra Do Jung:
Without torma intoxicating
You won’t have quick attainments
Here, the intoxicating refers to alcohol; it does not refer to other drugs.
From the Heruka Root Tantra:
Vajra goddess – intoxicating and meat
If the capable being offers these with devotion and respect
Then Heruka will be actually pleased
Therefore making offerings with a very satisfied mind
Then sublimeness (enlightenment) will be granted.
alpha wrote:Karma Gendun wrote: For us ordinary beings meat and alcohol should not be used.
well ,probably is better that everybody sticks to whatever advice their teacher has given them.
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