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Consciousness without surface, without end - Dhamma Wheel

Consciousness without surface, without end

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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clw_uk
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Consciousness without surface, without end

Postby clw_uk » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:27 pm

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

Element

Re: Consciousness without surface, without end

Postby Element » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:09 pm

Last edited by Element on Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Element

Re: Consciousness without surface, without end

Postby Element » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:19 pm


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clw_uk
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Re: Consciousness without surface, without end

Postby clw_uk » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:34 pm

Thank you Element, kind makes more sense now with that alternative translation.

So what it means is that dukkha goes out, not the ending of counsciousness itself?
Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

Element

Re: Consciousness without surface, without end

Postby Element » Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:42 pm


Element

Re: Consciousness without surface, without end

Postby Element » Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:10 am


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Jason
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Re: Consciousness without surface, without end

Postby Jason » Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:07 am

"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" ().

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nathan
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Re: Consciousness without surface, without end

Postby nathan » Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:52 am

Another alternative consideration may be suggested. Consider the noble ones described as touching, contacting or witnessing the deathless with the body. It might be suggested that consciousness is only present as in contact with conditional objects. In the absence of such contact there being no consciousness. Thus in the absence of any consciousness owning to clinging the body can only be in contact with the arising of the deathless or cessation. So the relationship between consciousness and nibbana would be the absence of consciousness but the presence of the unconditioned which might in some ways be described as 'consciousness-like' but not as consciousness per se as it is not perceptible or 'active' by means of clinging and therefore timeless, deathless or 'untraceable'.

Consider the parallel difficulty with describing where fire comes from or goes to. We can describe the observable functions but we cannot really fashion an ultimately satisfying scientific or functional description of what fire is or whence it comes and goes. We have the same difficulties with conceptions of and literal descriptions of consciousness and nibbana.

So understanding via direct knowing cannot by nature of both nature and non-nature be confined to nama or expressed fully and adequately in any such limited manner. Understanding these limits of conception, language and communication can save us a lot of misspent effort in attempts to overcome them and get us back on the mat with some added peace of mind in an effort to arrive at the direct understanding we seek.

I for one do not anticipate a satisfying and final unified theory of anything, including Dhamma.
But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Jechbi
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Re: Consciousness without surface, without end

Postby Jechbi » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:07 am

The sutta also surfaced in .


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