Weight

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Re: Weight

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:01 pm

Wow, thanks a lot guys! I just ate a bunch of carrots last night.

I had my thyroid checked recently (in the last three months) and it's functioning just fine.

Thanks again for all the good suggestions :)

Best,
Laura
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Re: Weight

Postby ronnewmexico » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:18 pm

It's very hard to give specific recommendations for anyone on diet as each person is their own story with immense differences of circumstances and constitution.

So for me....I take on occasion one supplement which absolutely for some unknown reason will put on weight. About a half a teaspoon when I take it daily.
Ten dollars or so for a powder bottle which would last many months at that rate of consumption. This takes about a week for efffect of this sort.
This is called D-Ribose Powder. It may be found in vegan form by NOw sports the distributor.
Weight lifters occasionally bodybuilders take this supplement to assist in strenght muscle growth. It is a simple sugar that begins the metabolic process for ATP production. Google it and you may find more about it.

Keep in mind supplements of this sort such as creatine are being used by others with muscle weakness problems now on occasion in the medical field.
These things have application beyond just the strenght sports.
Creatine if one has any kidney water or such problems I would not recommend this as it requires much water to metabolize and if not may cause problems.
But if one hydrates well this may be assisting as well. Most with creatine however just put on ten or so pounds and stays there....much is water weight as it favors retention of water. A tiny bit of creatine perhaps a 1/4 teaspoon may however work well with ribose. They work together a bit. I would absolutely not advocate for what is called creatine loading as this may cause problems as well. Creatine may be found in vegen form as well.
A process called microbiotic fermentation is the means for vegan sources of these things. Kind of like growing yeast and harvesting certain products of the growth and fermentation.

If one can do them one exercise will absolutely stimulate the appetite..squats.

Keep in mind I am male and older and vegan for many years. So single things like this may or may not work for you as they do for me.
20 plus years of being vegan changes things bodily.
Ongoing medical problems and consult your doctor first before any supplements. They will not know what you are talking about so send them a email with a link. If no problems ribvose seems benign to me.
Once weight is up and stabilized you can of course drop it. Take it again if the problem occurs again.

As you may know that is to much weight to soon to loose. It cannot be healthy. In any event you must hydrate very well with great weight loss as the metabolism of fats tend to be more inefficient that carbohydrates(looseing weight you loose muscle but largly fat)....so more waste products are produced.
They must be excreated...water assists that process. Things called ketones and ammonia which can be quite toxic are produced by a predominance of fat metabolism as opposed to carbohydrates. Hence the problem diabetics have from many years perhaps of difficulty metabolizing carbohydrates.
Diabetics untreated lack insulin which metabolizes sugar carbohydrate basically. Which is why the basic test for diabetes is a blood sugar level. Above a certain level consistantly infer diabetes. So over time it may have negative effect, predominace of fat as opposed to carbohydrate.

Ah its been a while :smile: ketoacidosis is the acute presentation of the complication of lack of insulin in a diabetic crisies..as the name implies metabolism of fat in predominance leads to PH changes of a subtle kind which can be negative for function in many manners. WE perhaps are not diabetics...but the same basic principles apply. Bodybuilders per example though in perfect health will when attempting to loose fat to exclusion of muscle, which requires virtually no carbohydrate consumption consume enormous quanities of water...otherwise they would be completely functionally deabilitated.

Protein also requires comparitively much more hydration to metabolize, but again some protein is consumed with dramatic weight loss as muscle metabolism but in the main it is fat that is metabolized.
Testing of bodily PH level may be done(in various forms to my dim recollection some more sophisticated then others) but without overt symptoms is probably a excessive endeavor to my opinion.
Minute may be the fluctation of PH which only presents as tiredness or lassitude. EAch of us has a natural PH which with some variance is a experiment of one as well. So normal range covers a lot of ground. Basically uninterpertable unless one has a solid baseline to compare to.
With dehydration of any significant sort...great muscle strength loss is incurred in the order of more than 10%.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Weight

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:52 pm

Thanks Ron. I have been excessively thirsty and I wondered why. I'll take your suggestions under consideration and talk with my primary physician more. Ironically you mentioned diabetes a lot which is what did my husband in last month. It's a really serious illness. Hopefully if I can get my system back on track I won't be at risk for any of those kinds of diseases :)

Kind wishes,
Laura
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Re: Weight

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:32 am

Sorry to hear of your loss.

Diabetes can present in many forms. Adult onset is almost exclusively nowadays diet and exercise related. Other forms can be genetically related, or trauma.
Most diabetics of the first sort die of related diseases that are increased by their being diabetic but not by the diabiates itself. Heart diseas kidney or liver disease..long term unmanaged it affects all the organs. Managed well it still affects the organs negatively. Genetic predisposition or trauma effect...it is very hard to manage completely. So those peoples may die of diabetic crisis..... insulin lack, or lack of balance between insulin and carbohydrate. Typically they go comotose in a crisis and suffer a airway compromise and die as result. Insulin shock being probably most acute cause for mortality. Insulin but no carbohydrate, they pass out very quickly, some go manic first. I knew of a manic type diabetic years ago back in the day who did significant time for a emotional murder,(a fight) clearly to me a result of his tendenc to mania as consequence to his diabetes....it was so sad..for medical problem hid did ten years plus in the state pen.

Diabetic but no insulin, causes problems but much longer to precipitate....a week or so I'd say for most to produce a crisis. So usually they get treatment before a overt crisis presents.

Curiously for me :smile: things of this sort are now becoming mainstream knowledge when once it was quite unknown of excepting some certain circles. A show I saw had two wilderness campers simulating being lost drinking a lot of water as one knew the solid protein they ate(I think it was egg part of some sort) needed much water consumption so they would not dehydrate.

Medically they seem to be just coming around to nutrition. For years and years medical training and internship required zero nutritionally centered classes.
As more than half of medical problems in the us are related to diet and excessive weight....that seems quite curious.
Docs in the US at least(in other places this is not true) are paid corrospondingly to treatments offered or performed, drugs issued...there is no incentive to stop peoples from first becoming sick, in fact quite the opposite they are incentivized by revenue stream to have their patients sick.
The more the better strictly financially considered. Few docs are that bad but the institution the AMA is all about that. Brit docs for one I believe are incentivized financially for healthy patients.
So sad american are being abused so badly by their ignornance of how things are and could be other.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Weight

Postby Konchog1 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:32 am

Ngawang Drolma wrote:Thanks Ron. I have been excessively thirsty and I wondered why. I'll take your suggestions under consideration and talk with my primary physician more. Ironically you mentioned diabetes a lot which is what did my husband in last month. It's a really serious illness. Hopefully if I can get my system back on track I won't be at risk for any of those kinds of diseases :)

Kind wishes,
Laura
In terms of Tibetan medicine: in Health Through Balance by Dr. Yeshi Donden on page 190 it says Diabetes is "brought on by too much food that is salty, sweet, having cool potency, and having a heavy nature." So things like Ice Cream. (p177)

As for what not to eat when one has Diabetes: "sugar, carrots, cauliflower, cabbage, molasses, turnips, and sugar beets." (p191)
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Weight

Postby edearl » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:44 am

D-Ribose is a sugar, and probably should not be taken if one is diabetic. Check with a physician.
HHDL: "My confidence in venturing into science lies in my basic belief that as in science so in Buddhism, understanding the nature of reality is pursued by means of critical investigation: if scientific analysis were conclusively to demonstrate certain claims in Buddhism to be false, then we must accept the findings of science and abandon those claims."
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Re: Weight

Postby Kyosan » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:49 am

I'm sorry about your loss. Maybe your weight problem will rectify itself in time, but it is dangerous for your weight to get extremely low. If you didn't have this problem before, how was your eating different then?

Techically, I shouldn't have used "root vegetables" but "tubers". Potatoes, sweet potatoes and yams are all tubers, I think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuber

Carrots are not the best thing, because they are much lower in calories than some other roots/tubers/corms. According to the USDA Nutritional Database

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/

raw carrots - 41kcal/100mg
cooked carrots - 35 kcal/100mg
baked sweet potatoes - 92 kcal/100mg
baked russet potatoes - 79 kcal/100mg
baked yams - 114 kcal/100mg (I think they are referring to the real yams, not the "yams" you find in most american stores, which are actually sweet potatoes)
cooked taro - 142 kcal/100mg

:namaste:
Last edited by Kyosan on Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weight

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:15 am

Perhaps from a other standpoint.... :smile: I can identify several of those issues, as foods known by analysis to have what is called a highglycemic index....basically they convert to glucose in the body almost immediately. Thusly if eaten exclusively without other componant will lead to the common sugar rush and consequent sugar lack depression which always follows the rush. Those tend to be detrimental if eaten without componant of protein or fat or fiber, to balance the tendency of high glycemia. And to much of them and regardless the person is affected negatively.
Fat type to my opinion, the lesser fats have a issue in the developement as well. These things being interrelated.

I do agree wholeheartedly it is not as much the obesity that causes the diabetes in type 2 but the choice of diet. Once firmly established however obesity then becomes the dominate factor in its persistance.
I have known at least one skinny person with no known risk factor for diabetes subject to diet of peopulations in which the disease is endemic develope diabetes quite assuredly as consequence solely of the diet.
And if the diabetes is significant enought and the diet unbalanced enought they may in fact continue to remain skinny as they cannot absorbe enough glycogen to gain weight and other source of calorie fat or protein is either not available or due to ineffecient metabolism just not able to provide enough for weight gain...but that is rare to my opinion.

Mostly type 2 are fat peoples who do not exercise, and eat poorly. High poor fats and simple carbohydrates. Simple carbohydrates as not only very refined wheats, things of that sort but also are equilivent..... those veggies with a high glycemic index. Fruit juices...may be for instance highglycemic as are almost all common sodas.
Type 1...a whole nother story. Pretty rare though comparatively. Skinny they may very well be.

Doc/american docs are simply not trained in this stuff much. Mostly their nutritional informations is slanted towards cholesterol as the cholesterol lowering drugs are quite the money making thing in the industry and to be effective they must be accompanied by diet change. So they have to know that.
Diet modification to counter occurance of before the fact, or to prevent diabetes..almost never due you hear of a doc in america doing that.
When a person developes diabetes or advanced hypoglycemic reaction....then they modify the diet, not before.
Before that almost never. Again drug to be optimally effective for diabetes requires diet modification as well...so they know that.

Docs that care about their health....like as not they hire personal trainers who specialize in nutritiion to aid them in their pursuit of health.
Says a story that......how much conventional docs know of nutrition. Tibetan docs..... hands down they know more by my take. The only occasional problem I could see is in the cultural barrier....some foods such as highly refined wheat are simply not common to their experience, but is endemic in the american diet. So I would check on that. If perhaps ones exposure is to a tibetan doc who is not familiar with the american diet and the person quarying things is american. Rare probably would that be.
Last edited by ronnewmexico on Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Weight

Postby Konchog1 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:53 am

ronnewmexico wrote:Simple carbohydrates as not only very refined wheats, things of that sort but also are equilivent..... those veggies with a high glycemic index. Fruit juices...may be for instance highglycemic as are almost all common sodas.

Tibetan docs..... hands down they know more by my take. The only occasional problem I could see is in the cultural barrier....some foods such as highly refined wheat are simply not common to their experience, but is endemic in the american diet. So I would check on that.
Same book as before says Wheat and Rye are both sweet, heavy, and cool. (p176) So bad for Diabetes, refined or not.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Weight

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:01 am

Peoples exposed to wheat since birth very many develope a reaction to gluten. Is this implicated in diabiates developement.....I think some say so.
So I could see as preventative such could also by other consideration be not eaten even when not refined.
This allergic reaction is so common many foods in the americas are now being labeled nongluten.

So I could see that. Whole grains.... normally this would not be considered diabetic leaning by my take. Of course consumed to exclusion of other foods of protein fat....then yes it would seem to lean that way..if that was all one ate.
Rye I don't know specifically if it constitues without refinement a higher glycemic producing thing.
Only rye I have eaten in breads and such seems pretty well refined but I really don't know.

Again to exclusion these things would present in a differing fashion,than in combination.

Does that book specify in combination with other foods or exclusive of other foods....as in only item generally eaten.
In rural areas a diet may be quite the same thing every day. So a blanket of variance we experience may not apply to what is intended if the author of the book is addressing a rural type other environment. Peoples may by necessity and lack of monies essentially have no variance in their diet.
A bread could be all they eat for most meals, or a cereal. So that could be a specific to address. Does that apply to the current persons cultural context...maybe it does........ but I don't know.

This is why I find giving dietary advice on specific issues so difficult. A item like exclusion may significantly vary the result of item as per just one example.
Which is when I advocate for Ribose for weight gain I say if you are like me this may work, and check with your doc if you have other medical issues first .....who knows really, there is so much variance to things of diet.

I am not inclined to just say this or that....will help or hinder....it all depends. Most it seems to me is.... this works for me or we must study the individual in complexity. Generally very generally we may advise is my opinion. What a person is already eating how often when and even where how old the person how varied the diet, where the person lives temperate tropical ..it quickly becomes a book of itself.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Weight

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:23 am

I do feel safe in making some blanket pronouncements :smile: ...when a person has lost 60 pounds of weight in five weeks regardless of starting weight I feel completely safe in advocating for complete hydration as compliment to the weight loss.

A middle aged person living in the tropics whose diet consists mainly on tropical foods fruits and such....that person I would not feel safe in advocating for additional hydration most likely of any sort, unless they had overt symptoms of dehydration. But if that same person be 400 pounds, it changes things completely.

This thing is very complex.

NO offense to books of any sort....as stated I do find things to be true and consistant with my beliefs on diet in tibetan dietary guidelines..... but I guess I do disagree with the notion of diet suggestion by book to exclusion of physical study of the individual being advised. That would apply however to any book on nutrition or such things not just tibetan.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Weight

Postby Konchog1 » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:39 am

ronnewmexico wrote:Does that book specify in combination with other foods or exclusive of other foods....as in only item generally eaten.
As I understand it, one removes all foods that harm him and eats more foods that helps him recover.

ronnewmexico wrote:In rural areas a diet may be quite the same thing every day. So a blanket of variance we experience may not apply to what is intended if the author of the book is addressing a rural type other environment. Peoples may by necessity and lack of monies essentially have no variance in their diet.
A bread could be all they eat for most meals, or a cereal. So that could be a specific to address. Does that apply to the current persons cultural context...maybe it does........ but I don't know.
That's possible, I don't know.

ronnewmexico wrote:I am not inclined to just say this or that....will help or hinder....it all depends. Most it seems to me is.... this works for me or we must study the individual in complexity. Generally very generally we may advise is my opinion. What a person is already eating how often when and even where how old the person how varied the diet, where the person lives temperate tropical ..it quickly becomes a book of itself.
Right. I was just saying fyi, might be interesting.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.

-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra

"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."

-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
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Re: Weight

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Nov 28, 2011 3:43 am

Well I think we agree...

the balancing of foods part more of what may not harm and less of what may harm.....that seems absolutely a viable true approach by my take, which would allow for the exclusion of other foods issue....by balancing one could not just be eating one thing, mostly.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
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Re: Weight

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:58 am

Greetings,

Ngawang Drolma wrote:How can you at least keep your weight from dropping even if you're consuming food and nutrients and even fats?

Cor blimey... I wish I had genuine cause to ask such a question!

Maitri,
Retro. :)
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