More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

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More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Mr. G » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:32 pm

Beijing, China (CNN) -- Until recently, he had rarely appeared in public. But now, he has been named to China's top advisory body.

The appointment of the 11th Panchen Lama, the second highest Tibetan spiritual figure, to the Chinese People's Consultative Conference is largely symbolic. But it's politically significant.

When the advisory group's annual conference convened Wednesday, the focus turned to the 19-year-old bespectacled Tibetan monk who appeared among 2,000 politicians, religious leaders, businessmen, academics and celebrities.

The gathering is the government's attempt to showcase China's multi-ethnic national unity. Delegates meet in Beijing every year to discuss government reports, deliberate members' proposals and endorse government policies.

Beijing's critics, however, say that the inclusion of the Panchen Lama at the annual meeting is part of a stepped up effort to undermine the popularity of Tibet's exiled leader, the Dalai Lama.

Read More Here: http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/03/03/china.tibet/
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby plwk » Fri Mar 05, 2010 2:11 am

I still recall seeing that huge book on the 'Panchen Lama' displayed prominently in an airport bookstore in Shanghai back in December 2008 when I was there on a tour...
....poor lad...used by a powerful regime...
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Mr. G » Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:58 pm

More news:

A boy who disappeared after being named Tibetan Buddhism's second-highest figure by the Dalai Lama is living with his family somewhere in Tibet, the Himalayan region's Chinese-appointed governor said Sunday.

Speaking to reporters in Beijing, Padma Choling gave no other details about the boy, Gendun Choekyi Nyima, saying only that his siblings were studying at a university or working in regular jobs.

"As far as I know, his family and he are now living a very good life in Tibet," Padma Choling said at a news conference on the sidelines of China's annual legislative session. "He and his family are reluctant to be disturbed, they want to live an ordinary life."

Gendun Choekyi Nyima, 20, was named the reincarnation of the Panchen Lama in 1995 by the Dalai Lama, Tibetan Buddhism's highest figure whom Beijing reviles. He and his family, who are from a remote part of Chinese-controlled Tibet, have not been heard from since.

Read More Here: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124410114
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Serenity509 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:02 am

What is the opinion for Gyaincain Norbu among Tibetan Buddhists still living in Tibet? Would they agree with him that Tibetans are better off today than they were under serfdom?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbUOtxtU3fw

We should please keep in mind that whether the current Panchen Lama was chosen under questionable circumstances or not, he seems to genuinely care about the well being of Buddhists living in Tibet. It at least appears that he is a sincere and genuine Buddhist:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/a ... sts-speech

I love Chinese Buddhism and I also love Tibetan Buddhism, so I prefer not to take a side in the feud between Tibet and China. I just think that we should be realistic in assessing the quality of life of the common people in Tibet today compared to before the Chinese invasion. China is not without its faults, but it appears to have taken a more supportive attitude of Buddhism in recent years or at least that's what's been reported in the news.

I'm sorry for resurrecting an old thread. I'm just trying to show some sympathy for Gyaincain Norbu and the difficult role in which he's been placed.
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Dan74 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:10 am

I think it's best to keep Chinese politics and Chinese Buddhism as well as Tibetan politics and Tibetan Buddhism as separate as possible. At least for those of us who have this luxury.
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Serenity509 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 10:18 am

Dan74 wrote:I think it's best to keep Chinese politics and Chinese Buddhism as well as Tibetan politics and Tibetan Buddhism as separate as possible. At least for those of us who have this luxury.


You are making a good point. I would just like to say that, when we say "may all beings be happy," that includes Gyaincain Norbu's happiness too. It's too easy in this world to hate others. It's worth noting that many Tibetan Buddhists come to him for blessings:
Image

Whether it's state-supported or not, the Buddhist Association of China is one of the most important Buddhist organizations in the world, and it's done a great deal for the advancement of Buddhism, including sponsoring the World Buddhist Forum.

Please keep in mind that I'm not taking a side. Strict binary thinking seems to be unhelpful to Buddhism. This documentary helped me a great deal in taking a second look at modern China:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOGh9GMm0WA
Please keep in mind that the above film is not state-sponsored propaganda. I just want love and peace for all sides. :namaste:
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Caodemarte » Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:48 pm

It will be interesting to see how this turns out for the PRC. I understand they have had bad luck with their intended puppets in the past (Tibetans carefully trained and educated in the system to be patriotic Chinese loyal to the party) who have turned again the Party. I can imagine the PRC appointed Panchen Lama turning against the indoctrination. After all, how many atheists are produced by the Catholic school system?

It's like the old Indian joke during the the Cold War. Since you don't know if the Soviets or the US is going to win, protect the family interests by sending one son to be educated in Moscow and one to the US. The one who goes to Patrice Lumumba University in Moscow will return a dedicated capitalist and violently anti-Communist and anti-Russian. The one who goes to the University of California will return a dedicated communist and violently anti-American.

This joke has enough truth in it to have been very practical advice at the time.
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby muni » Tue Aug 11, 2015 5:01 pm

I pray may Gedhun Choekyi Nyima be well. May we all somehow get his blessings. _/\_
Dear Amala on the picture, may you be blessed.

Then I put my feet in the shoes of this man, I draw his cloths around my body. A task to be a chosen child to whom the rest of the world is looking down.
First there was nothing. Then God said: “ May there be light!” And there was light.
There was still nothing, but now that was much better to see.

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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Serenity509 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:06 pm

Is it helpful to Buddhist thought to accuse anyone who shows appreciation for the many Buddhists who belong to and benefit from the Buddhist Association of China of being a shill for the CPC? China, after all, has more Buddhists than any nation on earth. I'm sorry if I'm wrong about this. If your guru or priest accepted an invitation to the World Buddhist Forum, would that be reason for disowning or rejecting him/her?

I'm not going to further comment on the average living conditions of Tibet before the Chinese invasion, but I will defend modern China against the idea that it's still the China of Chairman Mao. The documentary film Why Do They Fear Us? was not state-sponsored propaganda:

A Mexican traveler embarks on a journey to China to understand why the Western world fears this rising dragon. Overcoming linguistic barriers and legal restrictions she meets young Chinese willing to make truthful revelations. They deconstruct misconceptions and portray an evolving China, where true blue communism no longer exists yet the Communist Party fails to represent the people. During the course of filming, protests arose in Beijing, motivated by the Arab Spring. The interviewees bravely share their insights on the potential for political change in a country where freedom is relative. Their views are fascinating, eye-opening and courageous. Radical, conservative, patriotic, idealistic: they are the future of China. What will happen if this superpower takes a leading role in the world?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3450596/plo ... _=tt_ov_pl


This is the film in its entirety, which includes a nuanced perspective of modern China, rather than being a puff piece for the CPC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOGh9GMm0WA

When it comes to the disputed Panchen Lama, I know about the circumstances that led to his ordination. All I'm trying to do is look at him as a fellow human being, and see whether or not he honestly tries to fulfill his role, a role he did not choose, in a way that is helpful to others.

Buddhism teaches that it's unfair to judge people without taking into consideration their causes and conditions, if you even judge others at all. Given the amount of young tulkus today who haven't grown up to fulfill their bestowed roles, I can show at least a little appreciation for one who seems to be actually trying to fulfill his.

I'm willing to be hated by anonymous posters on an internet forum, or even accused of being a puppet for the CPC, in order to show sympathy for Chinese Buddhists and also for Tibetan Buddhists who choose to remain in Tibet. This doesn't mean, of course, that I have no sympathy for the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans in exile. Who is going to show sympathy, though, for Chinese Buddhists and for Tibetan Buddhists who choose to stay in Tibet?
Last edited by Serenity509 on Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:16 pm

Serenity509 wrote:
I'm not going to further comment on the average living conditions of Tibet before the Chinese invasion,


They were much happier.

When it comes to the disputed Panchen Lama, I know about the circumstances that led to his ordination. All I'm trying to do is look at him as a fellow human being, and see whether or not he honestly tries to fulfill his role, a role he did not choose, in a way that is helpful to others.


He is a puppet, a tool.

Buddhism teaches that it's unfair to judge people without taking into consideration their causes and conditions, if you even judge others at all.


I am not judging him personally. I am judging his role and how he is being used.

Who is going to show sympathy, though, for Chinese Buddhists and for Tibetan Buddhists who choose to stay in Tibet?


This not the issue.
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Serenity509 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:24 pm

Malcolm wrote:This not the issue.


Unless the Tibetan Buddhists who come to the disputed Panchen Lama for blessings are just paid actors of the CPC, and unless the Tibetan Buddhist teachers and leaders living in Tibet who express support for him are paid actors of the CPC, then I think their perspective matters.

I'm not going to give an opinion either way on the circumstances which placed him in that role, a role which he didn't choose. I think what matters more is whether or not he's sincerely trying to fulfill that role in a way that is helpful to others.

Of course, I have no connection to the Chinese government whatsoever. I just have sympathy for China as a nation with more Buddhists than any nation on earth, a nation which has been so instrumental for the historical development of Mahayana Buddhism.
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:46 pm

Serenity509 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:This not the issue.


Unless the Tibetan Buddhists who come to the disputed Panchen Lama for blessings are just paid actors of the CPC, and unless the Tibetan Buddhist teachers and leaders living in Tibet who express support for him are paid actors of the CPC, then I think their perspective matters.




I can tell you for a fact that no Tibetans inside the PRC have any faith in the Panchen puppet, not matter what photos you may see.
Last edited by Malcolm on Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby T. Chokyi » Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:49 pm

Serenity509 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:This not the issue.


Unless the Tibetan Buddhists who come to the disputed Panchen Lama for blessings are just paid actors of the CPC, and unless the Tibetan Buddhist teachers and leaders living in Tibet who express support for him are paid actors of the CPC, then I think their perspective matters.

I'm not going to give an opinion either way on the circumstances which placed him in that role, a role which he didn't choose. I think what matters more is whether or not he's sincerely trying to fulfill that role in a way that is helpful to others.

Of course, I have no connection to the Chinese government whatsoever. I just have sympathy for China as a nation with more Buddhists than any nation on earth, a nation which has been so instrumental for the historical development of Mahayana Buddhism.


Blah Blah Blah China...so what, the government there has not made any genuine attempt at a cooperative relationship with the Tibetan people whom they regularly and systematically suppress. If and when the fake Panchen Lama is brought to a Gompa where there are real Tibetan practitioners those people have to receive him and act polite or they get into hot water with the government, end of story, so what you see is lots of acting, but not paid acting.
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Serenity509 » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:22 pm

Malcolm wrote:I can tell you for a fact that no Tibetans inside the PRC have any faith in the Panchen puppet, not matter what photos you may see.


How can one be certain of this, without conducting some sort of survey or poll?

T. Chokyi wrote:[
Blah Blah Blah China...so what, the government there has not made any genuine attempt at a cooperative relationship with the Tibetan people whom they regularly and systematically suppress. If and when the fake Panchen Lama is brought to a Gompa where there are real Tibetan practitioners those people have to receive him and act polite or they get into hot water with the government, end of story, so what you see is lots of acting, but not paid acting.


Are you saying that the lay people living in Tibet, and the leaders and teachers living in Tibet, are not real Tibetan Buddhist practitioners? This sort of binary thinking doesn't seem to be what the Buddha taught. Let's please have more tolerance and understanding for all sides in this. :namaste:
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby conebeckham » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:47 pm

Serenity509 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:I can tell you for a fact that no Tibetans inside the PRC have any faith in the Panchen puppet, not matter what photos you may see.


How can one be certain of this, without conducting some sort of survey or poll?

T. Chokyi wrote:[
Blah Blah Blah China...so what, the government there has not made any genuine attempt at a cooperative relationship with the Tibetan people whom they regularly and systematically suppress. If and when the fake Panchen Lama is brought to a Gompa where there are real Tibetan practitioners those people have to receive him and act polite or they get into hot water with the government, end of story, so what you see is lots of acting, but not paid acting.


Are you saying that the lay people living in Tibet, and the leaders and teachers living in Tibet, are not real Tibetan Buddhist practitioners? This sort of binary thinking doesn't seem to be what the Buddha taught. Let's please have more tolerance and understanding for all sides in this. :namaste:


No one is having "binary thinking" here, really. All of us agree that there are genuine Buddhist practitioners in Tibet, and in China.
All of us who've been around awhile also agree that the Panchen situation is obviously PRC propaganda, and that Tibetans know this. The Buddha taught about Right Discrimination, Discriminatory Wisdom. Being able to determine genuine Dharma relationships from PRC Photo Ops falls broadly under that teaching, IMO.
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 11, 2015 8:54 pm

Serenity509 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:I can tell you for a fact that no Tibetans inside the PRC have any faith in the Panchen puppet, not matter what photos you may see.


How can one be certain of this, without conducting some sort of survey or poll?



Because I know Tibetans and have travelled to Tibet and China. I bear no ill towards China or the Chinese, but I think the attempt of the Chinese Gvt. to manipulate Tibetans through Dharma is as pathetic as it is transparent. No one takes this Panchen Lama seriously. Add this to the fact that he has been associated by his PRC handlers with the Shugden Cult, and you can really understand why no one pays him any heed.
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:25 pm

Serenity509 wrote:What I recommend doing, then, is staging a boycott of the next World Buddhist Forum, and calling out any Buddhist leaders outside China who participate in it. I'm sorry if I'm wrong for making this suggestion.


There is no point to that. Most of the participants are not Tibetan Buddhist anyway. We know the reason for this.


Is the China of today the China of Chairman Mao? Should it be supported in its liberalization or should it be feared? In recent years, the Chinese government has taken a supportive stance on Buddhism, and I think that should be encouraged.


China is suppressing Tibetan Buddhism along with Tibetans very harshly. In fact, virtually all Tibetans have all had their passports rescinded and are not allowed to travel out the PRC bloc, or even from province to province. Also China is interfering with the traditional nomadic culture of Tibet through resettlements. Lhasa is being dismantled house by house., etc.


The United Nations is set to receive evidence that Chinese People’s Armed Police troops have repeatedly opened fire on unarmed Tibetan protesters calling for religious freedom over the past seven years.

Evidence of deadly attacks by the Chinese paramilitary on Buddhist demonstrators across the Tibetan Plateau – provided by witnesses, whistleblowers, and a secret government document smuggled out of Tibet – will be presented to the UN’s Committee against Torture later this year.

“The usage of live ammunition against peaceful Tibetan protestors does exist and it is also disproportionate,” Prime Minister Lobsang Sangay, the head of Tibet’s government-in-exile, told The Diplomat. “This is clearly in violation of international law,” said the prime minister, a former research fellow at prestigious Harvard Law School who wrote his graduate thesis on Buddhism and Human Rights.


http://thediplomat.com/2015/04/chinas-c ... -in-tibet/
Last edited by Malcolm on Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:31 pm

Serenity509 wrote: I think we should take the thoughts and feelings of these Tibetans into account.


These Tibetans are just ordinary folks doing what they are told, putting on a show for western reporters at the behest of the Gvt.

Really, S509, you have no idea what you are talking about.
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Re: More Propaganda - China's Panchen Lama gets high profile

Postby Malcolm » Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:51 pm

Serenity509 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:There is no point to that. Most of the participants are not Tibetan Buddhist anyway. We know the reason for this.


If the Chinese government is an enemy of Buddhism, then we should please demand that Buddhist leaders from our own traditions not participate in the World Buddhist Forum, which is sponsored by the Chinese government. People call for boycotts all the time over far more trivial matters.


The situation is a little more complex than just calling the Chinese Gvt. "enemies of Buddhism." China wishes to control Buddhism within its borders, and it cannot control Tibetans, so it exercises deadly force against Tibetans and Tibetan Buddhist establishments, while making a show of the fake Panchen for decorum and, it seems, to delude themselves into thinking they have a liberal policy towards Tibetan Buddhism, when in fact their policies are anything but liberal.


It would seem a little naive to insist that the government of India has no political motives whatsoever in providing refuge for the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans in exile


India and its relationship to the tiny Tibetan exile community is not on the table for discussion right now.
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