End times propaganda in Buddhism?

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Aemilius
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End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Aemilius » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:48 pm

This subject exists, though maybe not so evidently at first glance. There are profecies about the future in Sravakayana, in Mahayana, and in the Tantrayana Dharma. What I mean by End times Dharma is that you think that because it is the End times of the Dharma therefore..., -here follow all kinds of different views and different practices depending whether you are a Nichiren, Pure Land, Nyingma, or follower of other schools and other doctrines.
In some schools the End times teachings are more esoteric, but you get to know them gradually as you progress in that particular path of Dharma. The End times teachings in Buddhism derive from certain sutras, and from the visions of the accepted and honoured masters of different schools of Dharma.
In Mahayana there are profecies in The Lotus Sutra, Diamond Sutra, Prajnaparamita Sutra for Benevolent Kings, Avatamsaka sutra, Sutra of Bodhisattva Maitreya, and so on... In the Pureland sutras profetic ideology is implied by the teaching of Five Degenerations.
svaha

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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby DGA » Sat Nov 26, 2011 3:54 pm

It's true that Buddhism does not have an optimistic view of the present or the future of this world. Samsara.

It's also true that this view of time informs the rationale for practice in many Buddhist schools (you can see this readily in the way the doctrine if Mappo affects different forms of practice in Japanese Buddhism, for one).

I'm not sure what you are trying to say about this, however. In what way is this a kind of propaganda in your view?

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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Dharma Atma » Sat Nov 26, 2011 6:17 pm


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LastLegend
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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby LastLegend » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:07 pm

Any particular reasons why it is propaganda?

Dharma is conditioned, why should it be a surprise if it eventually comes to an end?
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:17 pm

Not to purposely confuse the issue but dharma..covers a lot of ground, as to meaning and to what aspect of it may end and what may not.
It may serve to identify exactly what dharma is being referenced in what context.
Teachings in this context as being only dharma....I agree teachings come and go. Sometimes available and sometimes not. Dharma in other context....?. Is it stated that dharma is then only the teaching always.....?

It seems there are other contexts in which dharma is referenced. No scholor or even educated....I will not be able to elaborate well but suspect there are.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Dharma Atma » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:57 am


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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby ronnewmexico » Sun Nov 27, 2011 11:43 am

Well we may agree.
In one sense dharma based upon truth the way things all really are or exist in relationship to one another may never change.
This truth is always true. The relationship dependent origination and all the rest when things exist they are as this displays.
So dharma in essence can not disappear nor deminish. The reflection of dharma as teaching, the buddhas teaching in a conventional fashion..of course that is of the nature of samsara and can deminish or grow.

So in one fashion I find dharma eternal in another quite not, depending of course upon which context one is referencing.
Opposed to other religions dharma is the truth of things or as they are so.... the teaching always have a eternal aspect though they display in variance.
There is a name to the forms which I forget.

Not to important but I think it is worth mentioning as only the conventional dharmic interpretaion has been mentioned.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Dharma Atma » Sun Nov 27, 2011 12:28 pm


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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby DGA » Sun Nov 27, 2011 4:25 pm


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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Grigoris » Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:48 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Dharma Atma » Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:30 pm


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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Quiet Heart » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:24 am

Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach

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LastLegend
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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby LastLegend » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:28 am

NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

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Dharma Atma
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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Dharma Atma » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:17 pm


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Grigoris
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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Grigoris » Mon Nov 28, 2011 5:32 pm

Well, can we have some sources for the conditioned nature of Dharma please?
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Grigoris
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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Grigoris » Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:20 pm

In the book "The Vajra Prajna Paramita Sutra, An Explanation" by Venerable Master Hsuan Hua on the commentary to the sventh chapter we find the following:
"Subhuti what do you think? Has the Tathagata attained anuttatarasamyaksambodhi? Has the Tathagata spoken any dharma?"
Subhuti said, "As I understand what the Tathagata has said there is no concrete dharma called anuttatarasamyaksambodhi and there is no concrete dharma which the Tathagata has spoken. And why? The dharmas spoken by the Tathagata cannot be grasped and cannot be spoken. It is neither dharma nor no-dharma. And why? distinguishes worthy sages"

or in the AF Price translation:
"Section VII. Great Ones, Perfect Beyond Learning, Utter no Words of Teaching

Subhuti, what do you think? Has the Tathagata attained the Consummation of Incomparable Enlightenment? Has the Tathagata a teaching to enunciate?

Subhuti answered: As I understand Buddha's meaning there is no formulation of truth called Consummation of Incomparable Enlightenment. Moreover, the Tathagata has no formulated teaching to enunciate. Wherefore? Because the Tathagata has said that truth is uncontainable and inexpressible. It neither is nor is it not. Thus it is that this is the foundation of the different systems of all the sages. "
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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Dharma Atma
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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Dharma Atma » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:26 pm

Last edited by Dharma Atma on Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Malcolm
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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Malcolm » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:34 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Dharma Atma » Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:55 pm


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Grigoris
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Re: End times propaganda in Buddhism?

Postby Grigoris » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:26 pm

So would it be correct to say that the actual teachings (the "mark" of Dharma as they are referred to in the Diamond PrajnaParamita Sutra) are conditioned and thus impermanent but that the Dharma itself is unconditioned?

Last Legends comment that Dharma is conditioned by ignorance didn't sound quite right to me .
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde


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