Wine and Meat Offerings?

Forum for discussion of Tibetan Buddhism. Questions specific to one school are best posted in the appropriate sub-forum.
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Grigoris » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:05 pm

You want a beer with your burger?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Malcolm » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:08 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Malcolm » Tue Nov 15, 2011 7:09 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Grigoris » Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:43 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

Blue Garuda
Posts: 1967
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:23 pm

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Blue Garuda » Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:01 pm

I have a strong aversion to red wine, pizza and chocolate and will seek to overcome it by substituting it for the usual tsampa and tea.

I feel whisky with my pills would also help me as tea seems a bit too much of an attachment.

Am I getting there or should I eat my own head for dessert? It's low fat. LOL :)
Left

User avatar
Dechen Norbu
Posts: 2869
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Dechen Norbu » Fri Nov 25, 2011 3:57 pm

60% of the brain is fat. :lol:

Blue Garuda
Posts: 1967
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:23 pm

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Blue Garuda » Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:38 pm

Left

User avatar
Dechen Norbu
Posts: 2869
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:50 pm

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Dechen Norbu » Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:55 pm

I agree. Some people don't... I for one don't think too much about this issue. Still i think it won't kill anyone to drink a sip of wine or eating a piece of meat neither it will mean that such person is less compassionate, no matter the angle we approach this subject. People who think otherwise may be falling prey to fundamentalist dietary mentalities that have nothing to do with Vajrayana. And as this is a Vajrayana thing, we can't approach it with a common Mahayana mentality. Nobody is forced to practice Vajrayana. But once we do, we need to be careful about samayas, pure vision and all that.

Blue Garuda
Posts: 1967
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 5:23 pm

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Blue Garuda » Fri Nov 25, 2011 8:03 pm

Left

User avatar
Thug4lyfe
Posts: 454
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:40 pm

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Thug4lyfe » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:32 pm

Jeez, cut down da cheezeburgr Yanks!!! Yous already got a reputation :P
Image

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Grigoris » Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:40 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
Posts: 3664
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Adamantine » Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:59 am

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

User avatar
wisdom
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:33 am

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby wisdom » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:39 pm

So it seems like the point is to overcome limitations. In this sense I am not limited in either drinking or eating meat. I've done both in great quantity in the past. Drinking and other forms of intoxication I saw eventually as empty, so stopped partaking in them. Meat I ate for 28 years. I stopped because one day I began to see animals as my kin, I stopped judging them based on appearances and mental capacity and started to see the Buddha in them. I enjoy the taste of meat actually, I refrain out of compassion. Its not that I see meat eating as impure, many things in nature eat meat. I don't think lions are impure demons for eating meat, for example.

If its about limitations, I should start with raw onions. I despise raw onions. They make me gag. When I eat a sandwich with onions in it, the first thing I think is that something in the sandwich is rotten, only to discover its just the onions. Then I should move on to things like pigs feet, tripe, heart, and so forth. I also hate whiskey, it also makes me feel nauseous, but not as bad as onions. Gin is pretty gross too. I worked in a wine bar for a year, I rather enjoy wine and understand it fairly well.

User avatar
wisdom
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2011 4:33 am

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby wisdom » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:48 pm


User avatar
ronnewmexico
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:17 pm

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:53 pm

Well the thread has gone this way..... :smile:

As a similiarity I did for a year try a differing item each week, of unknown type. Fresh sheep blood from the dripping just killed sheep that was quite novel :smile:
After that I tried many differing diets, and now can I suspect eat anything.

But the choice then to me is not meat, as end product of this. Food is all about habit. Fine distinctions are present but really not all that important.
We eat this way we live longer.We eat this way we die shorter...but most of us we misuse this life anyway....so what matter really for most, I suspect little.
WE attach very strongly to food no doubt about it. It being something we do every day and always it is about the me.

Meat for offering...great purpose I'd guess as is suggested here....Me..... then I will remain lesser of lesser purpose. If greater purpose that be... be that for another not me.
A personal answer but it is mine.
I will have no part of it. Meat is harm to being in the west. Overt harm......... there exists other things to offer. As part then of spiritual offering....? Not mine, it will not be.
Others.....I could see others may need to do that...that is their business not mine. They are not me nor have they eaten the still dripping blood from sheeps neck as I have. So say I must do their thing or me, say they must do mine....no I will not do that.

Alcohole....it makes me sleepy...so that is it. I find no fault to alcohole as offering.
Alcohole is a joke. A made up demon, whose only influence is when you think it has influence. So that could I see have real applicable context.

Again this is all situational and specific to the one. Is it possible to find humanly killed or just died animals in the west..no very rarely.
Does the harm found by such killing overweigh the benefit found in the practice....no probably not.....for some people, perhaps the vast majority I don't know, (a teacher knows of the individual). The benefit being much greater for most I'd guess.
If it serves no individual purpose or only slight purpose then the benefit would be minimal and thusly the harm would outweigh the benefit.
So for some by my thinking it would be inappropriate. For other totally appropriate.

lIfe and death are of course demons as well, made up demons, but we are really causeing harm to another being with its untimely death in the production of the fear they feel(inthe west)....so it causes real, not made up harm in a conventional sense. So we must be certain what we offer does actually outweigh the harm..hence a teacher :smile:
Oh they may have a fortunate rebirth as result and all the rest(the meat provider).....well if I could read their story I could say that. NOt knowing that I won't. I could use that as all sorts of things....attempting to read rebirths and causing all sorts of harms.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.

User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
Posts: 3664
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Adamantine » Sun Nov 27, 2011 5:43 am

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

Josef
Posts: 1626
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Josef » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:28 am

There are commentaries on this subject that one can read. If you arent a Vajrayana practitioner it is none of your business anyways.
If you are, ask your teacher or read a relevant commentary.
This is not the place.

User avatar
Adamantine
Former staff member
Posts: 3664
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
Location: Space is the Place

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Adamantine » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:41 am

Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha

User avatar
LastLegend
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Washington DC

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby LastLegend » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:56 am

Hello. I had to drop by and leave a comment. I know one way to find out if one is still attached to the habit of eating like Ron said, one can eat only one thing everyday for 10 days to see if the craving is still there for other food. Say eating brown rice everyday for example. If one is no longer attached to eating, then indeed the food is empty to him.

Personally, I am still attached to eating different varieties.
Last edited by LastLegend on Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

Josef
Posts: 1626
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm

Re: Wine and Meat Offerings?

Postby Josef » Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:58 am



Return to “Tibetan Buddhism”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 25 guests