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non-violence in extreme cases. - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

non-violence in extreme cases.

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Modus.Ponens
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Modus.Ponens » Thu May 27, 2010 5:54 pm

I agree with Dukkhanirodha. Non-violence is always the way. There's a sutta somewhere that states that a person who works for himself only is superior to those who work only for others (and a person who works both for the benefict of themselves and of others is the foremost) (if someone has the original quote please provide it). To me this implies that something like kiling an atacker to prevent others from being killed is not the best way to deal with the situation.

EDIT: furthermore, in the vinaya, the Buddha forbided for monks even to praise death.
Last edited by Modus.Ponens on Thu May 27, 2010 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Modus.Ponens » Thu May 27, 2010 5:59 pm

One more thing. I think hypothetical situations have their utility, which is to explore the limits of morality. If one gets to the conclusion that it's never right to kill one will always abide by that rule. And rules are very important to have since they may help us decide in the only milisecond we may have at our disposal what's the right thing to do.
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

Mukunda
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Mukunda » Thu May 27, 2010 6:41 pm


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Tex
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Tex » Thu May 27, 2010 9:52 pm

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus

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cooran
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby cooran » Thu May 27, 2010 10:26 pm

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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acinteyyo
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby acinteyyo » Thu May 27, 2010 10:52 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

Mukunda
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Mukunda » Thu May 27, 2010 11:18 pm


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dhammastudier
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby dhammastudier » Thu May 27, 2010 11:19 pm


Virgo
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Virgo » Fri May 28, 2010 12:49 am



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Ben
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Ben » Fri May 28, 2010 1:29 am

Well said, Kevin.

I think what is going on is when some people see a weapon is that they perceive the sense data through the matrix of their sankharas and begin to react to the waves of phenomenal flora of those sankharas. Thus we are seeing the occurance of the superimposition of negative and political personal interpretations of what weapons mean to them and the not very subtle ascribing of character faults of those who use weapons for non-voilent purposes.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

Mukunda
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Mukunda » Fri May 28, 2010 1:37 am

A bit of back ground on myself.

I have studied and practiced martial arts.

I have owned weapons, including guns.

I have rationalized the practice of martial arts and use of weapons with the knowledge of archery in Zen, Kung Fu in Chinese Buddhist temples, etc.

And then one day it hit me like a bolt of lightening - One who is truly committed to non-violence and non-harming doesn't engage in activities whose origin is violence and harming. There are other arts to appreciate, other practices for physical fitness, other ways to compete, without the need to condone, glorify, and even give a spiritual "alibi" to practices and implements whose original purpose was the harming and killing of fellow sentient beings.

As much as I liked telling myself I had guns for target practice, I collected martial arts items in appreciation of their artistry and craftsmanship, or I engaged in judo and karate for the sport and for fitness, the fact of the matter was, I was still attracted to these things because I got a vicarious thrill out the violence they represented. There was no way to escape what the original intent of these items or practices is, regardless of what I told myself my intent was. Every time I looked at or handled weapons, or practiced katas or sparring, I was watering seeds of violence in my mind.

So now all of my weapons are gone, and I no longer practice or compete in martial arts. I even quit Tai Chi, and now practice yoga, walking and other forms of exercise. And since then, I can't remember getting angry enough at some one to even yell at them.

How many Glocks or long bows you figure the Buddha owned (after he left the palace that is)?
:anjali:

Virgo
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Virgo » Fri May 28, 2010 2:22 am



Virgo
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Virgo » Fri May 28, 2010 2:34 am



Mukunda
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Mukunda » Fri May 28, 2010 3:07 am


Mukunda
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Mukunda » Fri May 28, 2010 3:14 am


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Ben
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Ben » Fri May 28, 2010 3:22 am

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“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Pannapetar
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Pannapetar » Fri May 28, 2010 3:54 am


Mukunda
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Mukunda » Fri May 28, 2010 3:55 am


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Ben
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Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Ben » Fri May 28, 2010 4:56 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Tex
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Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:46 pm
Location: Austin, TX, USA

Re: non-violence in extreme cases.

Postby Tex » Fri May 28, 2010 5:09 am

"To reach beyond fear and danger we must sharpen and widen our vision. We have to pierce through the deceptions that lull us into a comfortable complacency, to take a straight look down into the depths of our existence, without turning away uneasily or running after distractions." -- Bhikkhu Bodhi

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man." -- Heraclitus


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