conebeckham wrote:There are "Compassion without object" and "Love without Object," according to the teachings I've heard, which are transcendent--i.e., nondelusive.
There is no mind without an object, due to dependent arising, so I can't accept the existence of such entities without further explanation. The implication of accepting that all conventional truths are objects for the deluded is an extreme that denies that validity of virtuous minds, and even Buddhas, who have conventional aspects.
Minds, as well as objects, are both "conventional truth." Nonreferential love and compassion are beyond conception, not "entities" or "minds" as such.....they are descriptive "qualities" of the Dharmakaya, terms we use as conventions, but not phenomema per se. Buddhas seem to have conventional aspects. In reality, Buddha is beyond phenomena, beyond samsara, yet manifesting in Samsara for the benefit of deluded sentient beings.
conebeckham wrote:The view that all conventional reality is only appearance for the deluded is not an extreme, it is the majority view amongst all who claim to follow the Madhyamika of Nagarjuna, etc.
Conventional reality is only appearance, that's true, but to say that it's an appearance only for the deluded means that Buddhas do not perceive conventional reality. This is refuted by Tsonghkapa and other authors. Furthermore, due to dependent relationship, ultimate truths cannot stand alone without conventional truths, so if you negate conventional truth you are inferring inherently existent ultimate truth, also impossible. In short, there are many unacceptable consequences to asserting ALL conventional truths to be only objects of a deluded mind.
First of all, in order to have a discussion about this, you have to be willing to consider that Tsong Khapa's presention is incomplete, or even mistaken, in some regards.
"Ultimate Truths" are actually conventional truths. All concepts, including the schema of the "Two Truths," are presentations of expedient meaning. There is no "Ultimate Truth" to stand alone in the first place. Emptiness of emptiness, you know? If there were an "Ultimate Truth" as a posited thing that permeated or was inseperable from phenomena, dependant origination could not function. Conventional truths are seeming. They are all phenomena, the transitory display of samsara, at all times empty of existence, yet appearing.