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Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Modus.Ponens » Tue May 18, 2010 3:20 am

He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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Dan74
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Dan74 » Tue May 18, 2010 3:27 am

_/|\_

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Pannapetar
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Pannapetar » Tue May 18, 2010 3:52 am


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Dan74
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Dan74 » Tue May 18, 2010 3:59 am

Well, to me these are claims. Including "universal". All these are rooted in our perception which is conditioned, and in Buddhadhamma we learn that even the perception of arahats is fundamanentally different, because the conditions are changed.

There is self-reference and circular logic in these kinds of arguments and I am not convinced.

Again I think you start off by attributing a "universal" aspect to our perceptions and pattern-recognition and then other supposed universals follow. To me all these are conditioned and not universal.
_/|\_

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retrofuturist
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 18, 2010 4:23 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Goofaholix » Tue May 18, 2010 4:26 am


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Sobeh
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Sobeh » Tue May 18, 2010 4:45 am


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Pannapetar
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Pannapetar » Tue May 18, 2010 6:00 am

Last edited by Pannapetar on Tue May 18, 2010 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

alan
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby alan » Tue May 18, 2010 6:03 am

The reason his statements have not got off the ground has nothing to do with anicca, or any other Buddhist ideas.
The problem is a fundamental misunderstanding of the idea of "essence".
Defining essence as "suchness" should set off alarm bells.

This is why going over to that Pali word of the day thread is so interesting. Many shades of meaning are contained in one word; context is always important.

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Pannapetar
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Pannapetar » Tue May 18, 2010 6:18 am


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mikenz66
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby mikenz66 » Tue May 18, 2010 6:30 am

I'm sorry, but I'm reminded of a recent talk I attended by a philosopher of mathematics (Peter Smith from Oxford if anyone cares) who was discussing the claims from Penrose and others that Godel's Incompleteness Theorems may be used to prove things about artificial intelligence.

His rather catchy summary was:
"If someone produces a rabbit, and the subject matter is not rabbits, then the rabbit has most likely been snuck in through the back door at some point..."

Mike

alan
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby alan » Tue May 18, 2010 6:32 am

Thomas:
Pretty sure I've defined my terms.
*Edited after Mike's post so as not to step on his toes*

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue May 18, 2010 6:43 am

math or circles or formulas etc aren't beings so what does it have to do with a self or not?

what you're saying, at least what i'm reading is there are certain formulas that are truths, and since this truth is unchanging it is or has a self but that's a huge leap isn't it?
would you ascribe all truths an atman or as an atman? the 4 noble truths?
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Pannapetar
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Pannapetar » Tue May 18, 2010 7:45 am


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Goofaholix
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Goofaholix » Tue May 18, 2010 9:33 am


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Prasadachitta
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Prasadachitta » Tue May 18, 2010 2:03 pm

Hi Thomas,

I have just one point. You are labeling some people as "constructionist". I had to look it up as I am not a student of classical forms of philosophy. Thanks by the way. Its nice to learn a little.

Anyway...

From what I can tell a constructionist view is built around the idea that there is a self that constructs. No self=No constructionist view. Apparently the constructionist view is a response to the "Objectivist" view but this also requires a self. No self= No objectivist view.

Thinking is fun.

Learning is fun.

Time to Meditate.

Love Love

Gabe
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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jcsuperstar
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby jcsuperstar » Tue May 18, 2010 6:34 pm

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

Kenshou
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Kenshou » Tue May 18, 2010 6:55 pm

Will proving that mathematical formulas are an atman of some sort end your suffering?

If not, I'm afraid I don't see the point here. I truly do not mean to be patronizing in saying this but I think this is pushing the dhamma beyond it's intended bounds into areas it wasn't meant to deal with, and so the results are going to be awkward. Wrong tool for the job.

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Dan74
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Dan74 » Tue May 18, 2010 7:19 pm

_/|\_

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Sobeh
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Re: Synthetic a priori, mathematics, and not-self

Postby Sobeh » Tue May 18, 2010 10:34 pm



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