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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:59 am 
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For all interested just click on the first link and sign.
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Dear friends,

Days ago, Palden Choetso walked out of her nunnery, covered herself in petrol and set herself on fire while pleading for a 'free Tibet'. Minutes later she died. In the past month, nine monks and nuns have self-immolated to protest a growing Chinese crackdown on the peaceful Tibetan people.

These tragic acts are a desperate cry for help. Machine gun-toting Chinese security forces are beating and disappearing monks, laying siege to monasteries, and even killing elderly people defending them -- all in an effort to suppress Tibetan rights. China severely restricts access to the region. But if we can get key governments to send diplomats in and expose this growing brutality, we could save lives.

We have to act fast -- this horrific situation is spiraling out of control behind a censorship curtain. Over and over we have seen that when diplomats themselves bear witness to atrocities, they are motivated to act, and increase political pressure. Let’s answer Palden's tragic cry and build a massive petition to the six world leaders with the most influence in Beijing to send a mission to Tibet and speak out against the repression. Sign the urgent petition:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_tibetan_lives_a/?tta

Tibetans are suffocating under China’s stranglehold. They are unable to practice their religion freely -- just downloading a photograph of the Dalai Lama can land a Tibetan in prison. And it is getting worse as columns of Chinese troops have blockaded the largest monasteries and are abducting monks into "patriotic re-education" programmes. This horrific situation is spiraling out of control.

Since the beginning of the year, eleven monks and nuns have set themselves alight and with every protest China tightens its grip. For Tibetans, self-immolations are a very severe sacrifice that reveal their level of despair. They believe that committing suicide has a devastating impact on the cycle of re-incarnations and may even put you back 500 lifetimes. But Tibet's situation is so horrific that monks and nuns are forfeiting their positions in the cycle in exchange for the hope of international attention and freedom for their brothers and sisters.

The Chinese government won't allow journalists and human rights monitors into the region -- just days ago Sky news and AFP journalists were forced out. But diplomats can request access and get in. And, as we have recently seen in Syria, they are the best way to get first hand reports, let China know that the world is watching and start high-level political conversations on Tibetans’ human rights.

It’s up to us to raise the global alarm. If we can get the US, UK, Australia, India, France and the EU to send a delegation now, they could push China to action. We have no time to lose -- sign the urgent petition:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_tibetan_lives_a/?tta

Avaaz members have supported projects that are piercing the blackout and defending Tibetan culture and religious practice. But China’s ruthless crackdown is escalating. It’s time for our whole community to take a stand together with these peaceful people sacrificing their own lives for basic rights. Let’s show them that the world has not forgotten them.

With hope and determination,

Emma, Iain, Dalia, Ricken, Diego, Shibayan, Giulia, and the whole Avaaz team

More information:

Tibetan nun burns to death (BBC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15571017

Tibetan Nun Who Set Herself On Fire Dies (Sky)
WARNING THIS VIDEO CONTAINS DISTURBING IMAGES
http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16095074

Dalai Lama: 'Cultural genocide' behind self-immolations (BBC)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-15617026

Study points to heavy handed repression of Tibetan area in China (The New York Times) (including HRW report)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/13/world ... china.html

China is fueling the fires of Tibetan resistance (Guardian)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... immolation

Rare footage of Tibetan monk post-immolation in April
WARNING THIS VIDEO CONTAINS DISTURBING IMAGES
http://www.avaaz.org/tibet_immolation_footage

Video of heightened police presence days ago in Ngaba (AFP)
http://www.avaaz.org/Ngaba_police_footage

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:32 pm 
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Done. It really is kind of amazing to watch the signature count rising so fast, with people from all over the world signing.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Quote:
Days ago, Palden Choetso walked out of her nunnery, covered herself in petrol and set herself on fire while pleading for a 'free Tibet'. Minutes later she died. In the past month, nine monks and nuns have self-immolated to protest a growing Chinese crackdown on the peaceful Tibetan people. ..... Let’s answer Palden's tragic cry and build a massive petition to the six world leaders with the most influence in Beijing to send a mission to Tibet and speak out against the repression

Sorry to be the negative person here, but really.. Linking a petition for support for Tibet with these self immolations is a terrible mistake. I cannot even begin to say how sad this makes me.

Best wishes
Lars


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Huh? You think it might lead to even more severe crackdowns?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 2:49 pm 
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I think it will lead to more suicides if there is a perception that self immolation makes a difference.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 5:11 pm 
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Probably coz it does. It draws attention to the situation and through drawing attention people become interested and sign petitions or even become involve at a deeper level. It makes "ordinary" people think: how f****d up is the situation if people are willing to kill themselves to escape it/draw attention to it. And unlike suicide bombings, where there are also other victims, innocent and not so innocent, it does not draw so much negativity onto the actor and their actions.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:44 pm 
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There are other ways to effect change. The ordained should know better then to throw away their precious human life. :shock: :shock:

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Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:53 am 
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I guess then that you know of no accounts of bodhisattvas, motivated by their pure compassion, giving their lives to relieve the suffering of sentient beings? This concept just flew straight past you?

People let's keep the judgements to a minimum, these people have given their lives in protest to highligh the suffering of the Tibetan people. A little sympathy and compassion and a lot less judgement might be called for.
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:35 pm 
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They havent relieved the suffering of anyone by setting themselves on fire. :thinking:

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Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 2:46 pm 
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Directly? No! I agree.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:29 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
Directly? No! I agree.
:namaste:


There are certainly other ways to help people Greg, Tibet is a bit of a lost cause I think the only way change for the better can come is if people help change the power structure from within, :namaste: Prayers are always helpful to.

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Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:12 pm 
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Caz wrote:
There are certainly other ways to help people Greg, Tibet is a bit of a lost cause I think the only way change for the better can come is if people help change the power structure from within, :namaste: Prayers are always helpful to.
A lost cause? Greece won it's independence from Ottoman rule after 500 years of occupation. There is no such thing as a "lost cause" my friend!
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Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:54 pm 
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Agree.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:43 am 
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This sort of action is closer to the style of left wing revolutionaries and Al Queda terrorists who express their feelings in extreme ways. Is it really going to improve Chinese opinion of Tibetans to commit similar actions to the Falun Gong? In the end, it will be the opinions of Chinese citizens that will free or unite Tibet with China.

Chinese Buddhists adapted the Communist regime, Tibetans should learn the same. Times change and things are impermanent, is it really wisdom to head butt a stubborn bull in the head?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:15 am 
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Left wing revolutionaries and Al Queda terrorists tend to kill others and not themselves (except for suicide bobmbers, but their motivation s to kill others whilst killing themselves so it is just not a valid comparison.

As for the Chinese Buddhists you'll find that it was a case of adapt or be killed. Given the options...

Tibetan Buddhists live in a colonised nation, like the Maori of Aotearoa. Should the Maori also forget about their land and heritage and become dumb and white because the English decided to invade them?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:36 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
Caz wrote:
There are certainly other ways to help people Greg, Tibet is a bit of a lost cause I think the only way change for the better can come is if people help change the power structure from within, :namaste: Prayers are always helpful to.
A lost cause? Greece won it's independence from Ottoman rule after 500 years of occupation. There is no such thing as a "lost cause" my friend!
:namaste:


China is an economic powerhouse with a military might there is little that can currently be done to help the tibetan cause because the west has a vested interest in China. I hope Tibet will not have to wait for 500 years before its independence however I get the feeling no matter how many people set themselves on fire it will not make much of a difference change must always come from within the system things may be different in a democratic china this would be something to work for to benefit not just the Tibetans but other peoples with the PRC who experience similar wrong doings.

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Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

Liberation in the Palm of your hand~Kyabje Pabongkha Rinpoche.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Caz wrote:
China is an economic powerhouse with a military might there is little that can currently be done to help the tibetan cause because the west has a vested interest in China. I hope Tibet will not have to wait for 500 years before its independence however I get the feeling no matter how many people set themselves on fire it will not make much of a difference change must always come from within the system things may be different in a democratic china this would be something to work for to benefit not just the Tibetans but other peoples with the PRC who experience similar wrong doings.
I reccomend you study the Ottoman Empire a bit. There were LOTS of vested interests in play then too. You are right that the system needs to change (collapse) from within too. It helps. But it won't change by itself, it has to be made to change (from inside and from outside social/economic/political forces).

The Tibetans are also currently "inside" the Chinese schema (as are the Uyghurs, Mongols, Miao, Tujia and the Dai).
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:54 pm 
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You seem to practice Noam Chomsky more than Buddhism?? Mind you, I used to eat all that stuff up.... PRIOR to learning Buddhism.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:30 pm 
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I used to chase neo-Nazis down the street with loaded guns, this is me being as cool as it gets. Another 17 years of Buddhist practice and I may get even cooler. Maybe.
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 3:37 am 
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I ain't da one hur encouraging OTHER people to take extreme actions to achieve political means backed religious righteousness. Your obviously isn't going to burn yourself with petrol for Tibet, so it's pretty easy on a internet forum over the ocean to take the "rah rah fight da powah" stance.

Everyone have the right to express their opinions, but when you start to encourage people to take their lives over the internet..............

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