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 Post subject: Seeds
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 10:20 pm 
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When we talk about proclivities of the mind perhaps referred to as seeds....not sure.......are we talking about causes? Karma or something else? Are there active seeds and dormant seeds? And I was reading briefly that something turning into a result will either ripen into a result or will exhaust itself as the other option. Does this refer to seeds as well? Just trying to learn a little bit about causes, conditions, etc.

Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:50 pm 
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Karma ripened when conditions are met.

By the way, you look constipated. :rolling:

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NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

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―Listen! Those of you who devote yourselves to the Dharma
must not be afraid of losing your bodies and your lives―


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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 5:29 pm 
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Okay, sorry for not being clear.

When we are talking about freedom from signs in vipashyna meditation it is from my understanding signs refers to two things - those tendencies or seeds left from the afflictions that ripen into circumstances and then dormant tendencies or seeds. If it is like that, those seeds left over from the afflictions, is that karma and can that also be referreed to as a cause? From my understanding and I think in Vasubhanda's works he mentions several types of causes. And then what are those dormant seeds that do not ripen?


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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Can you supply a source passage for what you are referring to Sangyey? That might help.

And BTW, you look fine. :twothumbsup:


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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:30 pm 
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sangyey wrote:
Okay, sorry for not being clear.

When we are talking about freedom from signs in vipashyna meditation it is from my understanding signs refers to two things - those tendencies or seeds left from the afflictions that ripen into circumstances and then dormant tendencies or seeds. If it is like that, those seeds left over from the afflictions, is that karma and can that also be referreed to as a cause? From my understanding and I think in Vasubhanda's works he mentions several types of causes. And then what are those dormant seeds that do not ripen?


I understand signs to be conceptual reference points, so meditation on emptiness is vipashyana "devoid of signs" (animitta).

Seeds (bija) are a result of karma and the stored version of what's going to become vipaka, kept in the alaya vijnana.

I think that you might be conflating two things somehow...

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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:21 pm 
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I got this after listening to HH Dalai Lama teaching on shamatha and vipashyna. When his holiness was talking about shamatha HH said that through shamatha you achieve mental and physical pliancy and are free from 'dysfunctional tendencies' ( referring to those of body/mind). Referring to vipashyna you achieve freedom from signs then HH said that this was referring to those potencies ( seeds ?) left by the afflictions that when meet with the correct circumstances will ripen into something and also noted about latent potencies that are also there but do not ripen.

I am just curious about the technical side of these potencies and latent potencies.

On the Berzin archives also, I was reading that karmic results have two possibilities - either they ripen into a result or they will exhaust themselves. I am not sure if I understood this correctly and if this can as well refer to those potencies ( seeds?) as I have been referring to.


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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:45 pm 
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sangyey wrote:
I got this after listening to HH Dalai Lama teaching on shamatha and vipashyna. When his holiness was talking about shamatha HH said that through shamatha you achieve mental and physical pliancy and are free from 'dysfunctional tendencies' ( referring to those of body/mind). Referring to vipashyna you achieve freedom from signs then HH said that this was referring to those potencies ( seeds ?) left by the afflictions that when meet with the correct circumstances will ripen into something and also noted about latent potencies that are also there but do not ripen.

I am just curious about the technical side of these potencies and latent potencies.

On the Berzin archives also, I was reading that karmic results have two possibilities - either they ripen into a result or they will exhaust themselves. I am not sure if I understood this correctly and if this can as well refer to those potencies ( seeds?) as I have been referring to.


Okay, I think I can see where your question is coming from.

What I think HH may be on about is that when you can rest free from signs - i.e. rest in the recognition of emptiness - you have damaged the ability for certain karmic tendencies to arise because reification of a sign is the fruition of karma. Depending on the level of your realization you will have more and more freedom from cognitive errors that result from karmic seeds, such as believing in a self etc.

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Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal


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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:25 pm 
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Thank you Paul. Is there a difference between a karmic tendency and another type of karma say an imprint left from a previous life like a misdeed such as stealing?


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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 11:42 pm 
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sangyey wrote:
Thank you Paul. Is there a difference between a karmic tendency and another type of karma say an imprint left from a previous life like a misdeed such as stealing?


A karmic seed is a karmic seed, although it needs the right conditions to manifest of course. So it might manifest in this life, the next or one several lives in the future.

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Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal


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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:01 am 
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Okay, on Alex Berzin's site he has these three as types of 'karmic aftermaths.'

1) network of karmic force
2) karmic tendency (bija)
3) karmic constant habit ( vasana )

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/sutra/level2_lamrim/initial_scope/karma/mechanism_karma_mahayana_presentati/mechanism_karma_03.html


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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:26 am 
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sangyey wrote:
Okay, on Alex Berzin's site he has these three as types of 'karmic aftermaths.'

1) network of karmic force
2) karmic tendency (bija)
3) karmic constant habit ( vasana )

http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/sutra/level2_lamrim/initial_scope/karma/mechanism_karma_mahayana_presentati/mechanism_karma_03.html


Scholars have a tendency to complicate things. May be what is called "karmic habit ".

If a "karmic seed" is not further nourished, re-inforced by "karmic habits" then it dries out and thus gets "infertile".

Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 1:00 am 
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Karmic seed = karmic tendency? From my understanding karmic tendencies are ethically neutral but I am trying to get a better understanding. Are karmic tendencies kind of like personal traits and habits that we develop that when link up with the network of positive forces produce their favorable or unfavorable results?


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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:13 am 
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I would not bother about the terms fabricated by scholars. There is no end of terms. If you continue investigating into terms fabricated by others you are trying to investigate into the fantasy of others. Futile. Do not reify mere words and invest them with fabricated meaning.

If you want to understand karma then look at your habits. Observe how repeated actions accompanied by certain motivations and intentions generate habits and re-inforce them and cause certain kinds of experience to arise. This is all you have to know about karma and its effects in your own sphere and the meaning of the teachings of the Buddha will dawn and the thirst for more words will subside causing discursive thinking to subside.


Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Seeds
PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2011 7:40 am 
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TMingyur is right.

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NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Linjii
―Listen! Those of you who devote yourselves to the Dharma
must not be afraid of losing your bodies and your lives―


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