Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:17 pm

Food_Eatah wrote:Yawn, the world repeats it'self. It's not as if this "Kill the rich when things are bad" haven't happened again and again in the past.
Over throw the goverment and see who rules. I'd wager it's people with more raw charisma, brute force and fire power.
This, unfortunately, is very, very true.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby kirtu » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:17 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Sönam wrote:
Namdrol wrote:It is time for the Euro to go.

N


It's time for Euro to go federalism ... altogether, European countries have no problem and are strong. When one step is made to go "One World", also when at first it's made for business purpose, it's a positive step ...

Sönam



You will regret -- it would be better for European countries to return to their own currencies and dismantle the EU. The EU is actually a policy agenda of neo-liberalism.


The so-called neo-liberalism thing is almost certainly on the way out. Anyway, how can you actually expect a group of social democracies to support a version of laisse-faire capitalism + fixed markets in international trade? Or do you have another view of neo-liberalism?

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby kirtu » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:19 pm

Dechen Norbu wrote:We're screwed Greg, that's what it is. :lol:
I can only imagine what will happen to us. We're the next in line...Image


There's always gold and silver ....

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Sönam » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:22 pm

Goldman Sachs !

Those days, again, they continues ... they recommand to their client to bet on the dégradation of European economy. Doing so they participate to the European degradation. Doing so they participate to the degradation of US economy.
Let's also have a look, in the world, who drives the business in the world, a couple of them come from Goldman Sachs.
So one may know where is the real enemy, it's not Greece, Italy, France or Europa, it's not socialism or indisciplined European ... the enemy is those who bet on peoples disease.

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Malcolm » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:48 pm

kirtu wrote:
The so-called neo-liberalism thing is almost certainly on the way out. Anyway, how can you actually expect a group of social democracies to support a version of laisse-faire capitalism + fixed markets in international trade? Or do you have another view of neo-liberalism?

Kirt


My view of neo=-liberalism is that WTO type agreements have basically caught everyone in a neo-liberal free trade nightmare. Look at all the so alled "austerity" measures being enforced by banks on this and that country. International capital has become a more powerful force than national governments, which is the whole point and goal of the neo-liberal agenda from the beginning i.e. less regulation, more market transparency, weaker unions, more profits, etc.

I think neo-liberalism is more powerful than ever, not weaker.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:51 pm

gregkavarnos wrote: Look at the American deficit, is that due to the socialist agendas of Americas political parties? NO!!!



Is this supposed to be a joke?

43% (and exponentially increasing with population) of our debt in America is caused by socialistic entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security.

I mean, thats just fact.
Last edited by alwayson on Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Malcolm » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:52 pm

alwayson wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote: Look at the American deficit, is that due to the socialist agendas of Americas political parties? NO!!!



Is this supposed to be a joke?

Most of our debt in America is caused by socialistic entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security.

I mean, thats just fact.



These are not socialist programs, since people pay FICA out of their paychecks for them every week. We PAY for SS. Or did that little fact escape your attention.

The problem with our country is that there is no enough socialism in it; not that there is too much.

N
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:54 pm

Namdrol wrote:
These are not socialist programs, since people pay FICA out of their paychecks for them every week. We PAY for SS. Or did that little fact escape your attention.

N



We pay in, but we don't cover the entire cost since medical costs increase, population ages etc.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:56 pm

Namdrol wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote: Look at the American deficit, is that due to the socialist agendas of Americas political parties? NO!!!


According to Faux news, yes.



And President Obama himself. He has mentioned several times how the entitlement programs are ravaging our debt.

It was the crux of his health care plan if you remember i.e. to get health care costs down.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Malcolm » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:04 pm

alwayson wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote: Look at the American deficit, is that due to the socialist agendas of Americas political parties? NO!!!



Is this supposed to be a joke?

43% (and exponentially increasing with population) of our debt in America is caused by socialistic entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security.

I mean, thats just fact.



NO, this is false.

Budget for 2011
$2.627 trillion (estimated) [1]

Total expenditures $3.729 trillion

There is a 1.101 trillion dollar deficit.

So, lets say we look at the numbers:

$553.0 billion (+0.7%) - Department of Defense
$118.0 billion (-26.0%) - Overseas Contingency Operations

Right there, you have 671 Billion. That is more than half of the deficit. All that military entitlement spending.

Medicare and Medicaid combined is like 754 Billion.

So, like most Rebuplicans, you want to keep the army and spend more money on it, but strip people of already inadequate health care.

SSI brings in $925 billion - Social Security and other payroll tax
It spends $761 billion

Looks to be like SSI pays for itself pretty damn well. Nothing socialist there.

The simplest thing to do, to pay for the whole thing is redistribute some wealth from the %1. Yes, raise taxes of rich people, since they are not creating an goddamned job and are just bloodsuckers, capitalist leeches.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:11 pm

Namdrol wrote:These are not socialist programs, since people pay FICA out of their paychecks for them every week. We PAY for SS. Or did that little fact escape your attention.


Of course we pay for it. Just like we pay for everything else in the planned economy either directly via taxes or paycheck deductions or indirectly via sovereign debt. Just because a program isn't a deficit program doesn't mean it isn't socialist. Or does a planned economy only mean those parts of the economy that are federal outlays outside of GDP (which SS isn't)?

Your position is like saying people shouldn't want to stop spending for the elephant crapping in the living room because it comes straight out of my salary and it isn't leased.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby kirtu » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:16 pm

Namdrol wrote:
kirtu wrote:
The so-called neo-liberalism thing is almost certainly on the way out. Anyway, how can you actually expect a group of social democracies to support a version of laisse-faire capitalism + fixed markets in international trade? Or do you have another view of neo-liberalism?

Kirt


My view of neo=-liberalism is that WTO type agreements have basically caught everyone in a neo-liberal free trade nightmare. Look at all the so alled "austerity" measures being enforced by banks on this and that country. International capital has become a more powerful force than national governments, which is the whole point and goal of the neo-liberal agenda from the beginning i.e. less regulation, more market transparency, weaker unions, more profits, etc.

I think neo-liberalism is more powerful than ever, not weaker.


Good points. I certainly agree. However markets are not transparent. The flow of information (even public information) is controlled by corporations who in effect push their advantage (soa a form of insider trading). All the rest is certainly the case.

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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:25 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Market transparency means transparency to corporations -- we know, that like their human counterparts, they don't give a frak about anything other than enriching themselves at the expense of others.



Not again with corporations being evil. :tantrum:

Go to India where meat is so expensive.

Corporations allow Americans to maintain a middle class lifestyle on multiple levels.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Malcolm » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:28 pm

alwayson wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Market transparency means transparency to corporations -- we know, that like their human counterparts, they don't give a frak about anything other than enriching themselves at the expense of others.



Not again with corporations being evil. :tantrum:

Go to India where meat is so expensive.

Corporations allow Americans to maintain a middle class lifestyle.



No, they don't. The middle class lifestyle is swiftly disappearing in the US? Why? Corporations and neo-liberalization of trade. Cost of living has been rising steadily against wages for years in the US. The middle class is all but dead.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Malcolm » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:29 pm

alwayson wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Market transparency means transparency to corporations -- we know, that like their human counterparts, they don't give a frak about anything other than enriching themselves at the expense of others.



Not again with corporations being evil. :tantrum:

Go to India where meat is so expensive.

Corporations allow Americans to maintain a middle class lifestyle on multiple levels.


And yes, corporations are evil and they are basically sociopaths and serial killers.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:29 pm

Sönam wrote: ... the enemy is those who bet on peoples disease.


Riiiiiiiight - because you know Goldman has been hiding in deep dark secret vaults the fact that its been shorting on European debt for years. You know kind of like those evil Bilderberg Republicans in their smoke-filled rooms hatching their evul top-secret plots for Zionist world domination ...

Let me ask you something - are you familiar with the federal '33 and '34 Acts? Do you know what they say and what they require in terms of full disclosure for financial transactions? Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that the financial community, including the Greeks, have been completely and totally ignorant that the entire financial sector has been shorting European bonds for years? And that because of, and as a direct result of that ignorance, the pure, pristine innocent Greek government was raped by a bunch of ravening Wall Street wolves who invaded their country and krazy-glued a bunch of credit cards to their hands to pay for their enormously overweight diet of social programs? Is that really, honestly your position?

The fact is that the banks were asked to make a market for Euro bonds by the European central banks. Those very same European central banks that are now squealing like little piggies because they somehow, by some inter-galactic leap of trans-human imagination, are now claiming that they didn't know, they couldn't possibly, possibly ever have known in a million gazillion years, that the enormously overweight sovereign socialist budgets of the PIIGS nations meant that there was going to be a crisis.

Give. Me. A. Break.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:30 pm

Namdrol wrote:The middle class is all but dead.



You are kidding me right?

Chill Namdrol....

Go to Best Buy or something. Play some Wii or Xbox 360.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Malcolm » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:32 pm

alwayson wrote:
Namdrol wrote:The middle class is all but dead.



You are kidding me right?

Chill Namdrol....

Go to Best Buy or something. Play some Wii or Xbox 360.



Dude, you just don't get it -- Wii etc., cheap electronic gadgets are just crack to keep the increasingly impovrished masses passive, bovine and content.
Last edited by Malcolm on Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:33 pm

Namdrol wrote:And yes, corporations are evil and they are basically sociopaths and serial killers.


That is the most paranoid, deranged, pathologically insane thing I have ever heard anyone say on these boards.

Image
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Re: Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

Postby alwayson » Thu Nov 10, 2011 9:35 pm

Namdrol wrote:
alwayson wrote:
Namdrol wrote:The middle class is all but dead.



You are kidding me right?

Chill Namdrol....

Go to Best Buy or something. Play some Wii or Xbox 360.



Dude, you just don't get it -- Wii etc., cheap electronic gadgets are just crack to keep the increasingly impovrished masses passive, bovine and content.



Where are these impoverished masses LOL

????
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