Dogen translation in English

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zangskar
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Dogen translation in English

Post by zangskar »

Which one do you recommend?

I have Cleary's Rational Zen which I like a lot, but it's just a small selection.

Thanks
Lars
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Josef
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Re: Dogen translation in English

Post by Josef »

Dogen's Extensive Record
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
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Astus
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Re: Dogen translation in English

Post by Astus »

As an intro to Dogen I'd recommend the Shobogenzo-Zuimonki, then the Shobogenzo, and only after that the Eihei Koroku.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
zangskar
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Re: Dogen translation in English

Post by zangskar »

Thanks, Astus and Nangwa.

I found these complete translations so far, I don't know if there are more (more complete ones as opposed to selections):

Shobogenzo-Zuimonki
Shobogenzo Zuimonki is translated by the Soto Zen net at
http://global.sotozen-net.or.jp/common_ ... index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
the translator is not stated
versus
The Primer of Soto Zen: Shobogenzo Zuimonki (East West Center Book), tr. by Reiho Masunaga
University of Hawaii Press

Shobogenzo
Gudo Nishijima and Chodo Cross' Master Dogen's Shobogenzo in several volumes.
There are some sites that claim there is a free online pdf of this work, but the links I found were actually for the next one. No wait: https://www.bdkamerica.org/default.aspx?MPID=81" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
versus
"SHOBOGENZO The Treasure House of the Eye of the True Teaching" by Eihei Dogen
Translated by Reverend Master Hubert Nearman, Order of Buddhist Contemplatives
Shasta Abbey Press, Mount Shasta, California 2007 ISBN: 978-0-930066-27-7
http://www.shastaabbey.org/teachings-pu ... genzo.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
versus
Kazuaki Tanahashi, tr. Treasury of the True Dharma Eye: Zen Master Dogen's Shobo Genzo
versus
Nishiyama and John Stevens (out of print though)

Eihei Koroku
Dogen's Extensive Record: A Translation of the Eihei Koroku by Taigen Dan Leighton
Wisdom publications.
The only one there is?

If it matters which one I get, which do you recommend? Free books are nice of course but I am not a big fan of reading for hours on a computer monitor and if instead of printing 1000 pages I might as well buy it. :)

Best wishes
Lars
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Astus
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Re: Dogen translation in English

Post by Astus »

As I'm not a Dogen scholar or Japanese expert, my best advice is to check the different translations and choose the one you like. The Zuimonki was also translated by Thomas Cleary. As for the Shobogenzo, the Nishijima translation seems to be more literal while the Shasta Abbey's try to be more of an explaining translation (thus a bit easier to read first). You can get both online actually, the Nishijima tr. is on the Numata's website: BDK Digital Books

In my opinion, however, if you want a fine introduction to Dogen, I recommend Carl Bielefeldt's "Dogen's Manuals of Zen Meditation".
The Soto Zen Text Project is another valuable source for alternative translations.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
zangskar
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Re: Dogen translation in English

Post by zangskar »

Thanks again

I found this essay and link collection of use also: http://www.thezensite.com/MainPages/Dog ... hings.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Best wishes
Lars
fugen
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Re: Dogen translation in English

Post by fugen »

Hi.

First, i am no Scholar of Dogen, and no expert on him either, but there are several interpretations of the shobogenzo in english. Most often written/talked about is the Nishijima version, the english textproject verion, the Shasta abbey version and the Tanahashi version. There are benefits and flaws to them all, and i would suggest reading at leats two simultaneously for the most benefit. The three first is, i believe, available free online, the last one is only viewable if you buy it.

The texts most often recommended as starters in the shobogenzo is Genjokoan and Bendowa. I would also like to add texts not in the Shobogenzo, one from the eihei shingi, the Tenzokyokun, instructions for the cook, of which there are several different version free online, and of course Fukanzazengi, Dogens Recommendation of Zazen.

Now a caution in reading Dogen, he is somewhat of an Jazzmusician playing with words and meanings like notes in a jamsession, creating some very heavy music at times, so take it easy, you don't have to grasp everything all at once, and enjoy the ride.

Thank you for your practice.

Gassho
Fugen
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Astus
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Re: Dogen translation in English

Post by Astus »

fugen wrote:Now a caution in reading Dogen, he is somewhat of an Jazzmusician playing with words and meanings like notes in a jamsession, creating some very heavy music at times, so take it easy, you don't have to grasp everything all at once, and enjoy the ride.
I wouldn't call him a jazz musician, rather a 13th century Japanese highly educated in his own culture and Buddhist terminology, a knowledge that very few possess today.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
fugen
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Re: Dogen translation in English

Post by fugen »

Astus wrote:
fugen wrote:Now a caution in reading Dogen, he is somewhat of an Jazzmusician playing with words and meanings like notes in a jamsession, creating some very heavy music at times, so take it easy, you don't have to grasp everything all at once, and enjoy the ride.
I wouldn't call him a jazz musician, rather a 13th century Japanese highly educated in his own culture and Buddhist terminology, a knowledge that very few possess today.
Hi.

Yes, i stand corrected he is like an jazzmusician playing with words then, alas as english is not my native tongue the words slip sometimes, thank you for the help.

Gassho
Fugen
zangskar
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Re: Dogen translation in English

Post by zangskar »

Thanks for your input, Fugen, it's appreciated!

I am now reading the cooking instructions and they are great. :twothumbsup:

Best wishes
Lars
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Sara H
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Re: Dogen translation in English

Post by Sara H »

Rev. Hubert Nearman (Dr. Mark J. Nearman)
Did a complete translation of the Shobogenzo from a Monastic perspective with doctoral expertise.

It is available here, for free as a .pdf download:

http://www.shastaabbey.org/pdf/shoboAll.pdf

or in individual chapters also as a .pdf available for download here:

http://www.shastaabbey.org/teachings-pu ... genzo.html

In Gassho,

Sara H
Observing your mind is a good idea.
Miguel
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Re: Dogen translation in English

Post by Miguel »

If you are going to get Thomas Cleary's translations of dogen, you can also check his series of books "classics of buddhism an zen", volumes 2, 3 and 4:

http://www.amazon.com/Classics-Buddhism ... sm+and+zen" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

volume 2 includes shobogenzo (13 chapters of it), volume 3 has the "rational zen", and volume 4 includes the "record of things heard", which is the shobogenzo zuimonki. You already have "rational zen", but if you are thinking of buying either the shobogenzo or the "record of things heard", you could just get volumes 2 and 4, since they don't cost that much more, and contain a lot of other interesting material translated.
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