Democracy in the country that gave birth to democracy

[Malcolm]

... Proudhon's theories ...

Property is theft huh?

Meh. I own my body therefore I own the effects of what that body produces, whether that thing is three square meals, four walls, or a murder.

Really, so you own your children?

[alwayson]

I hate the fact that the American economy is at the complete mercy of Europe's socialism/debt problems.

Europe has been causing the world's problems for centuries........colonization of Africa, Asia, New World (slaughtering all the Mayans, Aztecs etc.)....... World Wars 1 & 2............and now this socialism / debt stuff.

[Malcolm]

I hate the fact that the American economy is at the complete mercy of Europe's socialism/debt problems.

Europe has been causing the world's problems for centuries........colonization of Africa, Asia, New World (slaughtering all the Mayans, Aztecs etc.)....... World Wars 1 & 2............and now this socialism / debt stuff.

No, the debt crises was caused by Wall Street, not by Europe.

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

Silly Greeks?



Yeah.

Move along folks. Nothin to see here.

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

I hate the fact that the American economy is at the complete mercy of Europe's socialism/debt problems.

Europe has been causing the world's problems for centuries........colonization of Africa, Asia, New World (slaughtering all the Mayans, Aztecs etc.)....... World Wars 1 & 2............and now this socialism / debt stuff.

No, the debt crises was caused by Wall Street, not by Europe.

Riiiiiiight. Those bad Murrican manimals with their rape-tools just kind of rode in and krazy-glued all those credit cards to the fine upstanding elected Greek polis.

[kirtu]

No, the debt crises was caused by Wall Street, not by Europe.

Not totally - Europe also threw their mix into the mess. Greeks not paying taxes is an easy target. It's also part of the story, just not the main part.

Kirt

[Sönam]

I hate the fact that the American economy is at the complete mercy of Europe's socialism/debt problems.

Europe has been causing the world's problems for centuries........colonization of Africa, Asia, New World (slaughtering all the Mayans, Aztecs etc.)....... World Wars 1 & 2............and now this socialism / debt stuff.

a real question: who told you that ?

Sönam

[Sönam]

No, the debt crises was caused by Wall Street, not by Europe.

Not totally - Europe also threw their mix into the mess. Greeks not paying taxes is an easy target. It's also part of the story, just not the main part.

Kirt

The cause is the financial market, and the profits made on speculation on the ability for a country to pay back his debt ... and often only on playing to play, saling and buying ... a very nauty game.
You can play the game to throw the ball to Europa, or back to the States, but that way you won't have the real figure.

Sönam

[Thug4lyfe]

Although looking at the European life style... this whole situation looks just like everyone paying for their collective Karma.

High social welfare, "right to Siesta", all night partying, best foodz, liberal sexual culture, lazy youth, counter culture can only last so long, once a country's good Karma is used up, everyone must face the consequences.

It's caused by everyone.

[kirtu]

Europe has been causing the world's problems for centuries........colonization of Africa, Asia, New World (slaughtering all the Mayans, Aztecs etc.)....... World Wars 1 & 2............

Sonam -

The part in bold above is basically true. However the Aztecs were overthrown by a Spanish-Native alliance because the other natives wanted to destroy the Aztecs.

The Mayans were finished off by the Spanish but it appears that their real demise was due to overpopulation relative to their food capacity.

It is undeniable that from 1492 - 1920's Europeans and their descendants in the US exterminated American Indian societies and suppressed their culture. They did the same in Africa by taking slaves, although the English, Spanish and Dutch got out of slave trade by 1820 or so. And China for sure underestimated the Europeans and paid for it with the Opium Wars and the fall of the Ching Dynasty (not that the Manchu rulers were all that competent at the end ....).

Anyways ....

Kirt

[kirtu]

No, the debt crises was caused by Wall Street, not by Europe.

Not totally - Europe also threw their mix into the mess. Greeks not paying taxes is an easy target. It's also part of the story, just not the main part.

Kirt

The cause is the financial market, and the profits made on speculation on the ability for a country to pay back his debt ... and often only on playing to play, saling and buying ... a very nauty game.
You can play the game to throw the ball to Europa, or back to the States, but that way you won't have the real figure.

I'm not playing or throwing balls. The US financial market did not cause the 2008 Depression all by itself. It had help from traders in London who were all players in mega-capitalism run amok on the planet. They happened to include English, French and American traders.

Mostly everyone else was peripheral but some French banks were major players. In the US the mess was a financial house of cards just like in 1929 but this time one of the major switches was default by a French bank.

Those are just the facts.

Kirt

[Sönam]

Europe has been causing the world's problems for centuries........colonization of Africa, Asia, New World (slaughtering all the Mayans, Aztecs etc.)....... World Wars 1 & 2............

Sonam -

The part in bold above is basically true. However the Aztecs were overthrown by a Spanish-Native alliance because the other natives wanted to destroy the Aztecs.

The Mayans were finished off by the Spanish but it appears that their real demise was due to overpopulation relative to their food capacity.

It is undeniable that from 1492 - 1920's Europeans and their descendants in the US exterminated American Indian societies and suppressed their culture. They did the same in Africa by taking slaves, although the English, Spanish and Dutch got out of slave trade by 1820 or so. And China for sure underestimated the Europeans and paid for it with the Opium Wars and the fall of the Ching Dynasty (not that the Manchu rulers were all that competent at the end ....).

Anyways ....

Kirt

Agree ... it's just that alwayson forgot that by that time he was European

Sönam

[kirtu]

Although looking at the European life style... this whole situation looks just like everyone paying for their collective Karma.

High social welfare, "right to Siesta", all night partying, best foodz, liberal sexual culture, lazy youth, counter culture can only last so long, once a country's good Karma is used up, everyone must face the consequences.

It's caused by everyone.

"Right to Siesta" - you haven't actually lived in a European country have you? The Spanish did take long lunches that's true. And they and the Belgians often went out till the wee hours but people are also working very hard. How hard is sometimes debated (for example I've heard some Dutch people talk about how a minority of the country is working, etc. - their statements aren't credible). And anyways Scandinavians and German speakers tend to be workaholoicish. It's a more complex picture.

Liberal sexual culture - many Europeans are just not prudish like the Americans and many people from Chinese culture. Youth in Europe aren't lazy at all. One of the few downsides to social democracy was that youth employment was negatively impacted for many until they were between 25-30. For this reason people often stayed at university for a longer period.

These facts also vary by country and region.

As for karma - after WW2 Western Europeans tended to avoid putting their efforts in war. After the end of the Cold War Germany bailed out a good deal of Eastern Europe and Europe was and is heavily involved in rebuilding Afghanistan and Iraq.

Kirt

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

... has everybody forgotten that we are meant to feel compassion for those that are suffering?

You are quite right and thanks for the reminder. If I were a better practitioner like you I would have been able to remind myself. Here in the US a large number of my friends have been unemployed for a long time now and unable to find work.

For all the suffering nations of the world, and especially for those people everywhere who suffer under dire financial conditions or who are currently unemployed and whose families are suffering because of that:

Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum
Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum Om Mani Padme Hum

[Sönam]

Although looking at the European life style... this whole situation looks just like everyone paying for their collective Karma.

High social welfare, "right to Siesta", all night partying, best foodz, liberal sexual culture, lazy youth, counter culture can only last so long, once a country's good Karma is used up, everyone must face the consequences.

It's caused by everyone.

Purpose in life is not
Low social welfare, right only to work, having a boring life, eat mac donalds, only masturbate, speedy oldies ... are you really a vajra practitioner ?

Sönam

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

It's caused by everyone.

Actually if you believe the rumors started by those Buddhist chaps - it's caused by me.

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

... only masturbate ...

Once again, as an inveterate masturbator I must really object to the implication that masturbating is not upaya.

[Sönam]

... only masturbate ...

Once again, as an inveterate masturbator I must really object to the implication that masturbating is not upaya.

I was just answering point by point, and "only masturbate" was an answer to "liberal sexual culture"

Sönam

[Karma Dondrup Tashi]

... only masturbate ...

Once again, as an inveterate masturbator I must really object to the implication that masturbating is not upaya.

I was just answering point by point, and "only masturbate" was an answer to "liberal sexual culture"

Sönam

I know, I know, I'm just being a p*nis. Carry on.

[alwayson]

Agree ... it's just that alwayson forgot that by that time he was European

Sönam

I'm Indian.

You know from South Asia.

You Europeans colonized us too.