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Can non-Buddhists become enlightened? - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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tiltbillings
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed May 12, 2010 4:15 am


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Pannapetar
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Pannapetar » Wed May 12, 2010 4:43 am

Last edited by Pannapetar on Wed May 12, 2010 5:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Dan74
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Dan74 » Wed May 12, 2010 4:45 am

Ben, of course I believe that Buddhadhamma is the best teaching (at least for me) as far as the ending of delusion is concerned. And I agree with your reservations.

I would just add the following simile:

Suppose you are lost and you are looking for a place but you don't even know what exactly that place is (like Alice in Wonderland!). You ask for directions and here there are many possibilities for good advice and right advice which are not always the same. Sometimes directions may be incomplete but they get you to a plateau were the you see things a lot more clearly and have a better idea of what to ask and where to go. Sometimes directions can be not really right, because the details further down the track may be a bit off, but the early bits are spot on and when you have completed that, you may realize that you need to ask again. Sometimes directions can be correct and complete but very hard to follow (like some maps) and you end up more lost than before.

Likewise I think that when the Dalai Lama (apologies for bringing him into the General Theravada forum) advised that many Westerners are better off sticking to their own religion, I think he meant that they often get lost in the excellent and complete map that the Dhamma provides and their own faith would be more likely to carry them further along the journey.

Does this make sense?
_/|\_

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retrofuturist
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 12, 2010 4:54 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Ben
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Ben » Wed May 12, 2010 5:18 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Dan74
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Dan74 » Wed May 12, 2010 5:38 am

_/|\_

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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Pannapetar » Wed May 12, 2010 6:08 am


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tiltbillings
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed May 12, 2010 6:25 am

For all that is being said above

Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

While there may be profound moral development and some degrees of insight, if there is no teaching and realization of paticcasamuppada, there is no awakening as the Buddha taught it.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 12, 2010 6:27 am

:goodpost:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed May 12, 2010 6:30 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 12, 2010 6:38 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Pannapetar
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Pannapetar » Wed May 12, 2010 9:02 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 12, 2010 9:19 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed May 12, 2010 5:24 pm


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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Prasadachitta » Wed May 12, 2010 6:37 pm

I wonder if its a matter of communication. I mean to say that perhaps it is possible for a person to notice Dependent Arising and be transformed by it but still have little to no capacity to communicate what has occurred. I can imagine that such a person might go on upholding the traditional tenets of a mundane religion simply because that is the only framework that occurs to them for the minimizing of harm.

:shrug:

Metta

Gabe
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Mukunda » Wed May 12, 2010 7:07 pm


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m0rl0ck
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby m0rl0ck » Wed May 12, 2010 7:31 pm

Was the buddha a buddhist?
If the truth is the truth it has to be the same truth for everybody, so to the degree that enlightenment is the truth it should be the same for everybody.
Buddhism is a conditional conceptional framework to be used and discarded.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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tiltbillings
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed May 12, 2010 8:19 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed May 12, 2010 8:32 pm


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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Mukunda » Thu May 13, 2010 1:46 am



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