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Can non-Buddhists become enlightened? - Dhamma Wheel

Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Yodsak
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Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Yodsak » Thu May 06, 2010 11:56 pm

In my humble opinion;

This question is really quite 'Buddha-centric'.
Kind of like the Christian-centric and Islamic-centric dogma that ONLY believers can get to heaven (or hell for that matter!).

Layman Arahant.

Do we only permit 'Buddhists' to be Arahants?

Is there a guidebook/manual with all the specifics and exclusions........

I am certain there are many people, like me, who (looking back) discern the shadow of the Arahant in their Mothers. My Mum's life of selflessness and unconditional love have been the main motivating factors in my practice. And she, a semi-literate Maori, never read a book on Buddhism.

Seems we 'Buddhists' can be as exclusionary as the jews, Christians, Muslims etc etc.

I guess Mother Theresa, Ghandi, Te Whiti o Rongomai (pre-Ghandian passive resistance in New Zealand 19th century) are all on the outer until they've read the Pali Canon and been to a dozen vipassana retreats? :thinking:

Metta, karuna, muditta, upekha.
kia kaha Buddhadhamma

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bodom
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Re: Layman Arahant

Postby bodom » Fri May 07, 2010 12:08 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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Yodsak
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Re: Layman Arahant

Postby Yodsak » Fri May 07, 2010 12:12 am

kia kaha Buddhadhamma

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Yodsak
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Re: Layman Arahant

Postby Yodsak » Fri May 07, 2010 12:15 am

Now that really is super-exclusionary.

In all the infinite vastness of the universe....

:roll:
kia kaha Buddhadhamma

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Layman Arahant

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri May 07, 2010 12:20 am

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Goofaholix
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Re: Layman Arahant

Postby Goofaholix » Fri May 07, 2010 12:22 am


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Yodsak
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Re: Layman Arahant

Postby Yodsak » Fri May 07, 2010 12:26 am

kia kaha Buddhadhamma

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bodom
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Re: Layman Arahant

Postby bodom » Fri May 07, 2010 12:31 am

Yodsak,

No assertion on my part, it is clearly stated in the texts.

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

Kenshou
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Re: Layman Arahant

Postby Kenshou » Fri May 07, 2010 12:38 am

Well, what about paccekabuddhas?

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Layman Arahant

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri May 07, 2010 12:39 am

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Pannapetar
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Pannapetar » Tue May 11, 2010 9:31 am

I always thought this was pretty uncontroversial in Buddhist lore. There are the Sammasambuddhas and Paccekabuddhas who are not Buddhists in the sense that they do not follow the Shakyamuni Buddha, but become enlightened through their own efforts. It is also uncontroversial in Buddhist lore, that all these noble people discover the same truth or dhamma. But that is apparently as far as it goes.

According to my (limited) knowledge there is no agreement about several interesting questions, such as:

- to what degree the phrasing of a Sammasambuddha's teaching coincides with Gautama's phrasing as handed down in the canon.
- whether Sammasambuddhas and Paccekabuddhas do exist in other religious traditions, such as Christianity or Hinduism.
- with what frequency Paccekabuddhas arise.
- whether Pratyekabuddha arise in other traditions.

Was Jesus Christ an enlightened master?

Any ideas?

Cheers, Thomas

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retrofuturist
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 11, 2010 9:40 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue May 11, 2010 9:46 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 11, 2010 9:48 am

Greetings Tilt,

I'm guessing the answer is "not there", but to be honest, I really know next to nothing about Jesus and his doctrine.

In this regard, I consider myself blessed.

8-)

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue May 11, 2010 10:00 am


brad48
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby brad48 » Tue May 11, 2010 10:57 am


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Pannapetar
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Pannapetar » Tue May 11, 2010 11:20 am


PeterB
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby PeterB » Tue May 11, 2010 11:53 am

Osiris lives in the minds of people too.
Not only does patticcasamuppada not feature in the teachings of Jesus..there is no patticcasamuppada- shaped hole that would be filled by patticcasamuppada and make sense of the rest of his techings.
Which makes any deduction that it was there but somehow got lost somwhat implausible.

The reality is that Christianity and Buddhadhamma have their respective sources in world views that have little or no commonality, Notwithstanding a shared view of some issues of social and individual morality.
A shared view that is also common to humanists, Hindus, Richard Dawkins and my gran when she was alive. In other words a moral stance that emerges from a common humanity, but differs considerably in its context.

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Ben
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Ben » Tue May 11, 2010 11:58 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Pannapetar
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Re: Can non-Buddhists become enlightened?

Postby Pannapetar » Tue May 11, 2010 12:25 pm



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