If a stream-winner...

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
BubbaBuddhist
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:55 am
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Mon May 03, 2010 6:27 pm

Well yes, you do hear this a lot. People experience a moment of clarity or bliss during meditation and all of a sudden think this experience is bodhi. This happened to me when I was seventeen or so. I thought I had glimpsed an Aleph (there's a term for some of you esotericists ) but it was just the product of a long period of meditation which led to a moment of clarity and happiness. This is why it's imperative to have a good teacher handy to smack the nonsense out of you and set you straight when you get carried away. :tongue:

But I do think there are Stream-winners in the world, probably more than many people assume.

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

User avatar
mikenz66
Posts: 14947
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:37 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby mikenz66 » Mon May 03, 2010 9:08 pm


PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby PeterB » Tue May 04, 2010 10:37 am

Perhaps this is a cultural thing, but I can put my hand on my heart and say that I have only once heard someone in a UK Buddhist setting claim Enlightenment. And as the claimee was clearly erm...."challenged"..this claim was just treated with kindliness and concern.

User avatar
salmon
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 2:55 am

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby salmon » Tue May 04, 2010 11:39 am

~ swimming upstream is tough work! ~

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 04, 2010 11:44 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Virgo
Posts: 1315
Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:52 pm

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby Virgo » Tue May 04, 2010 2:04 pm



User avatar
Zom
Posts: 1645
Joined: Fri May 08, 2009 6:38 pm
Location: Russia, Saint-Petersburg
Contact:

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby Zom » Tue May 04, 2010 2:16 pm

It seems to me that sotapanna level is not so high (for a buddhist) as some may think..

At this, a number of the Sakyans, whenever they met each other or came together in company, were indignant and angry, and said scornfully: "A fine thing, a marvelous thing! Nowadays anyone can become a Stream-Winner, if the Blessed One has proclaimed Sarakaani who died to be Stream-Winner... assured of enlightenment! Why, Sarakaani failed in his training and took to drink!"
...
"Why, Mahaanaama, if these great sal trees could distinguish what is well spoken from what is ill spoken, I would proclaim these great sal trees to be Stream-Winners... bound for enlightenment, how much more so then Sarakaani the Sakyan! Mahaanaama, Sarakaani the Sakyan fulfilled the training at the time of death.'


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html

By the way, Sotapanna is a pair, not a single person. So there are those sotapattimaggas and sotapattiphalas. Former didn't even remove 3 lower fetters, but even with that they head for nibbana for sure, like, as it seems, in a case with Sarakani. At the moment of death, as it seems, they will drop 3 fetters, and that is why they also can be called Sotapannas.


And more closely to this topic.. ;)

"When, for a disciple of the noble ones, these five forms of fear & animosity are stilled; when he is endowed with these four factors of stream-entry; and when, through discernment, he has rightly seen & rightly ferreted out this noble method, then if he wants he may state about himself: 'Hell is ended; animal wombs are ended; the state of the hungry shades is ended; states of deprivation, destitution, the bad bourns are ended! I am a stream-winner, steadfast, never again destined for states of woe, headed for self-awakening!'"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Anicca
Posts: 393
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:11 am
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby Anicca » Tue May 04, 2010 8:39 pm


User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby retrofuturist » Tue May 04, 2010 11:22 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Kenshou
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby Kenshou » Tue May 04, 2010 11:53 pm

If I remember correctly, a sotapanna is capable of breaking the more minor restrictions, but of course they then realize it and don't feel glad about it. I'd have to get back to you on the source, though, unless someone finds one before I do.

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby bodom » Tue May 04, 2010 11:59 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 05, 2010 12:06 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby bodom » Wed May 05, 2010 12:15 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby bodom » Wed May 05, 2010 12:21 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 05, 2010 12:28 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby bodom » Wed May 05, 2010 12:45 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 05, 2010 12:50 am

Greetings Bodom,

I could respond to that, but I think I'd merely be repeating what I said in this post of the earlier topic...

Suicide and Re-birth
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3411&p=49548

... perhaps it would be better for us to follow up that specific line of enquiry in that established topic, if we wish to pursue the matter of Channa further?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby bodom » Wed May 05, 2010 1:11 am

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 17855
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby retrofuturist » Wed May 05, 2010 1:20 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: If a stream-winner...

Postby bodom » Wed May 05, 2010 1:32 am

Good article Retro, thank you. :thumbsup:

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/


Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine