Trungpa Rinpoche's "Crazy Wisdom": Padmasambhava's Crime

[Thug4lyfe]

There was a famous Chan Master in ancient China called Ji Gung who dressed up in rags, sleep and wonder around all day drinking alcohol and eating meat. But he was famous because he often used to supernatural powers to teach greedy and bullying rich people a lesson and at the same time help the poor. This seems to be very relevant at the time, because many rich people are unethical and thinks that by simply giving donations to the temple they will be okay. Not to mention many members of the Sangha are getting greedy and attached to the offering instead of cultivating their mind.

Now, it just seems abit dodgy that Trungpa Rinpoche is doing this "precept breaking badass teacher" stuff to a hippy crowd thats already too attached to the the fantastic and sensual enjoyment.

I've found these important paragraph on a Chinese Buddhist book:

What Buddhism teaches:
Disciples of the Buddha take the precepts as their teacher, take refuge with the triple gem, have the right view and reasoning, observe their own actions, subdue their defiled thoughts, purify themselves.

What heretics teaches:
Highly cultivated individuals do not need to worry about their mundane actions. Honour themselves with the title: "Enter the evil ground to save all sentient beings". Hence they constantly travel through places of passion and lust, wallow in sensual pleasures, hence they cannot untangle themselves, how can they hope to liberate sentient beings?

[heart]

So if you have monk/nun robes and vows you are free from the three poisons? Vows and clothes don't purify the mind only wisdom does that. Sounds to me that you are mistaking the path of renunciation with the fruition of realization that beyond robes and vows and any kind of conventions that you could think up.

/magnus

[Thug4lyfe]

Well, it seems to come back to some of the earlier points in this debate. Some posters suggested that they'd prefer ethically sound teachers giving that Buddhism have fully established in the west we have many teachers without scandals to follow. Someother posters replied that "puritans" teachers are less preferrable compared to "crazy" ones.

Now is it a case of Trungpa Rinpoche's scandals are whats drawing the students in? If thats the case, isn't abit worrying that people just be looking for excuses to not have to follow the precepts themselves?

[heart]

Well, it seems to come back to some of the earlier points in this debate. Some posters suggested that they'd prefer ethically sound teachers giving that Buddhism have fully established in the west we have many teachers without scandals to follow. Someother posters replied that "puritans" teachers are less preferrable compared to "crazy" ones.

Now is it a case of Trungpa Rinpoche's scandals are whats drawing the students in? If thats the case, isn't abit worrying that people just be looking for excuses to not have to follow the precepts themselves?

I am not worried. A lot of people in this world do the right thing for the wrong reason. The result might become good or bad. I always been a fan of Trungpa and I never had more than one girlfriend at the time. Stopped taking drugs when I started meditating 25 years ago. I drink some wine now and then but never do crazier stuff than watching Kung Fu Panda. I got to know some Trungpa students over the years and most of them seems more or less as crazy as I am. So, unless you think it is crazy to spend many hundred of hours meditating every year I am afraid that you will be a bit disappointed with his old students.

/magnus

[catmoon]

As I mentioned before, the topic of this thread is not the conduct of Trungpa Rinpoche. Further posts on this subject will be removed. Feel free to start another thread if you wish to pursue the matter of Trungpa Rinpoche.

[ronnewmexico]

I don't know.

Perhaps it is result of differing views.
Some hold, perhaps most or about all, (I don't know), one accumulates good karma, perhaps grdually, perfect karma, and then ascends to a state that perhaps is so great it then produces...no karma.

I'd say this thing of karma as in Padmasambhava doing things which have known negative kamic effect it derives from other view.

karma produces certain spiritual effect of a greatly good kind but in the end it is still karma..derived from self.
If one holds the view that no karmic effect can be perfect however good and with the coin of good invariably comes the coin of bad.....ultimately when very close to realization or becoming realized....karma is a bit inconsequential.

Of course everyone includeing myself will then say...Oh....I am this great person I may now do everything It matters not.
We are of course not that special great person.
But for that special great person I could see how karmic effect of any sort good nor bad nor equal is but always equal.
Understanding devolving the self from which karma arises as apparence of self still exists in this realm at these times, so karma still appears in this realm at these times..but if no self being.....no self karma.

So for such a being the apparence of karma but not the actuality of it.
So what happens...maybe not so important in things.
This of course is not us nor about us... to t hink we are one such as padmasambhava is quite quite silly.

That may be how negatively karmically producing events may be utilized by one of such spiritual standing for means, without ultimate effect of the negative.
I respect the moderators valient attempts to keep this topic on point..

[heart]

:offtopic:

As I mentioned before, the topic of this thread is not the conduct of Trungpa Rinpoche. Further posts on this subject will be removed. Feel free to start another thread if you wish to pursue the matter of Trungpa Rinpoche.

The threads name is "Trungpa Rinpoche's "Crazy Wisdom": Padmasambhava's Crime". Can't say it is off topic.

/magnus

[catmoon]

:offtopic:

As I mentioned before, the topic of this thread is not the conduct of Trungpa Rinpoche. Further posts on this subject will be removed. Feel free to start another thread if you wish to pursue the matter of Trungpa Rinpoche.

The threads name is "Trungpa Rinpoche's "Crazy Wisdom": Padmasambhava's Crime". Can't say it is off topic.

/magnus

Sorry magnus, but the reference to Trungpa in the title is just incidental. If you read the opening post, you will find the only connection between Trungpa and the topic is that the original quote on Padmasambhava happened to come from one of Trungpa's books.

[heart]

:offtopic:

As I mentioned before, the topic of this thread is not the conduct of Trungpa Rinpoche. Further posts on this subject will be removed. Feel free to start another thread if you wish to pursue the matter of Trungpa Rinpoche.

The threads name is "Trungpa Rinpoche's "Crazy Wisdom": Padmasambhava's Crime". Can't say it is off topic.

/magnus

Sorry magnus, but the reference to Trungpa in the title is just incidental. If you read the opening post, you will find the only connection between Trungpa and the topic is that the original quote on Padmasambhava happened to come from one of Trungpa's books.

Ah, ok. Sorry for the off-topic subjects.

/magnus

[maybay]

The source is everything.

[catmoon]

The source is everything.

That may be true, but this thread is hardly the place to discuss it.