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Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi - Dhamma Wheel

Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

General discussion of issues related to Theravada Meditation, e.g. meditation postures, developing a regular sitting practice, skillfully relating to difficulties and hindrances, etc.
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smokey
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Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby smokey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:15 pm

The answer is quite simple. People are putting too much effort while meditating. And I will just say wu-wei. Hope some of you contemplatives will understand.

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tiltbillings
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:19 pm


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smokey
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby smokey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:23 pm

Let us not rely on the suttas too much.

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smokey
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby smokey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:24 pm

The right effort of the Noble Eightfold Path is effort without effort.

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bodom
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby bodom » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:25 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby David N. Snyder » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:29 pm

has stated that many meditators from the West try to go too fast and he has to encourage them to 'slow down' and take it easy. They want to go fast and try too hard.

And for his Asian students he has to encourage them to even try as they focus more on the devotional aspects. He tells them, "don't wait for the next Buddha."

But at the same time, persistence, determination and effort should not be underestimated as to their importance. I think the problem with some is more in regard to lack of khanti (patience).
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smokey
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby smokey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:35 pm

Okay. If I am not right. Here is the thing. To achieve Jhana is simple, to practice Vipassana is simple. People in Buddha's time did achieve enlightenment in a matter of months or even weeks. Why do nowadays people not achieve it during whole lifetime?

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tiltbillings
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:43 pm


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tiltbillings
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:53 pm

Let me add that while it can be frustrating that the practice seems hard and it seems that it is not getting anywhere, it is in the small things, in getting a little less frustrated by the bumps life presents that the results can be seen. It may not be enlightenment, but it can be a lightening up a bit in one's life.

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby m0rl0ck » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:01 pm

imo its like driving, sometimes you got to put the pedal to the metal, sometimes you have to slow down and take it a bit easy. Probably helps to have a teacher to tell you which times are which.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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smokey
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby smokey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:02 pm


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bodom
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby bodom » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:27 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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smokey
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby smokey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:42 pm

What I mean is to use effort without using effort. It sounds paradoxical to an ordinary mind. Try to understand it intuitively. I am refering to mindfulness and concentration. You just have to let the mind be.

Kenshou
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby Kenshou » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:54 pm

Just letting the mind be isn't really going to be enough to uproot our defilements, I think.

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bodom
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby bodom » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:56 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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acinteyyo
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby acinteyyo » Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:59 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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smokey
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby smokey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:06 pm

Yes Bodom and Acinteyyo, that is what I meant.

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smokey
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby smokey » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:07 pm

I am just not good at expressing myself.

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acinteyyo
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Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby acinteyyo » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:14 pm

You're not completely off the track with your suggestion smokey. The Buddha taught the "middle way", when it comes to effort it has to be the right amount, it must be in balance with all the supporting factors and actual circumstances. Too much effort won't be good and when it's not enough effort it's also not good. This applies to the whole eightfold path.
best wishes, acinteyyo
Last edited by acinteyyo on Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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bodom
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Here is the answer why do people today do not achieve Bodhi

Postby bodom » Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:14 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/


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