mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:They are similar because most of these modern mystical and pagan practices are just warmed over nicked versions of Buddhist and Hindu tantric practices.
I would actually agree, although maybe not for the same reasons. If anything, all of these practices (including Buddhism/Sanatana Dharma and Western Occultism) should be giving the Dravidians and other very ancient Primitive (and I mean "Primitive" as in closer to the Primordial, rather than "primitive" as in unsophisticated) cultures much of the credit. However they don't seem to very often.... However the Gnostic Mason Godfrey Higgins interestingly enough gave a lot of credit to the original, very ancient, black-skinned Buddhas (although Samael Aun Weor did write that the very First Root Race of Human Civilization were black-skinned individuals).
Namdrol wrote:The context of Dzogchen is %100 Buddhist. If you are a Dzogchen practitioner, there is no point in practicing anything else.
Well perhaps in many cases. Although everyone is different (yet not separate), and it is taught that Dzogchen can utilize various Skillful-Means of the lower Buddhist vehicles with the practice of Dzogchen. So it seems that Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is implying that even many of the non-Buddhist traditions have within them effective Skillful-Means as well. Fortunately, that which I consider to be "my Religion", specifically and profoundly venerates Vajrayana (see my signature). "My Religion", because the Gnostic Teachings of Samael Aun Weor are what inspired me to seriously aspire to achieve Liberation from samsara.
Samael Aun Weor wrote:"Remember, Gnostic brethren, that the practical synthesis of all the yogas, lodges, orders, religions, schools, systems, etc., is in the Gnosis of the Cosmic Christ. Our great Master, Jesus the Christ, deeply studied Yoga in its entirety and the whole of the ancient wisdom. Then after, he delivered all of this, already digested and perfectly simplified in an absolutely practical way in his Gnosticism.
"There is Gnosis in the Buddhist doctrine, in the Tantric Buddhism from Tibet, in the Zen Buddhism from Japan, in the Chan Buddhism of China, in Sufism, in the Whirling Dervishes, in the Egyptian, Persian, Chaldean, Pythagorean, Greek, Aztec, Mayan, Inca, etc., wisdom. If we carefully study the Christian Gospels, we will find in them Pythagorean mathematics, the Chaldean and Babylonian parable, and the formidable Buddhist moral.
"The system of teaching which was adopted by Jesus was the system of the Essenes. Certainly, the Essenes were one hundred percent Gnostics. Therefore, the Four Gospels are Gnostic Gospels and they cannot be understood without the Maithuna (Sexual Magic).
"It becomes absurd to adulterate Gnosis with different teachings, because the Christian Gospel prohibits adultery. It is absurd to conceive of Gnosis without the Maithuna. We can drink the wine of Gnosis (Divine Wisdom) within a Greek, Buddhist, Sufi, Aztec, Egyptian, etc. cup, yet we must not adulterate this delicious wine with strange doctrines. The practical synthesis of Gnosticism in its absolutely revolutionary way is taught within the Gnostic Institutions. The Gnostic Lumisials from the Gnostic Institutions are esoteric academies and temples of solar liturgy."
I recall reading on the the Dharmawheel forums something about Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche being involved with some form(s) of Western Esotericism, and this may coincide with Leo Zagami's claim that Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche associates with some of the European Grand Orient and/or Egyptian Rite Freemasons (although I'd take this claim with a grain of salt, because Leo Zagami, with all due respect to him, doesn't seem to be the most balanced individual, even though he seems to mean well. On the other hand, I don't see why he would have any motivation to make it up either).
Nevertheless, I mostly agree with you Namdrol in that Dzogchen would supersede everything else, so there would be little if any need to try to continue to fit the puzzle pieces together after we've been Directly Introduced to the Natural State.
Even though Chogyal Namkhai Norbu apparently doesn't mention Karmamudra very much, I've noticed that his teachings contain everything that Samael Aun Weor said is essential for true Spiritual practice:
Birth (related to Yantra Yoga and/or Tsa-Lung, Karmamudra and/or Pranayama), Death (death of the ego, i.e. Contemplation/Meditation), and Sacrifice (Karma Yoga and Bodhicitta); and Ganapuja/Communion or Ganachakra Puja.
Samael Aun Weor also wrote about the necessity of Blessing the Plant-Elementals when working with Occult Medicine. Does Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche teach anything similar to this?
Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:Look back in the day when I liked the occult I was into him. I just grew out of him. I think he rants a lot and his writing is kind of bad. But look if you're getting something out of it more power to ya. Who am I to judge I don't have any realization.
And neither do I. Nonetheless, I'll still address your points below also in response to Dechen Norbu:
Dechen Norbu wrote:Samael Aun Weor and his gnosis are really a poor choice for someone into western's occult scene. His work is shoddy, most is plagiarized,
If Samael Aun Weor plagiarized, then so did just about every other writer on any form of Esotericism. No one has a copyright on knowledge. And yes, there are some instances where Samael Aun Weor repeated other authors more or less word-for-word without citing them. But he also has cited the said un-cited authors elsewhere in his other works; so, frankly, who cares.
Also, the Western Occult scene nowadays is overall degenerated because most of these groups have lost some of the essentials of their traditions. For example, many groups follow the teachings of Piscean (pre-1960's) Occultists who wrote about the importance of Sex and Scientific Chastity
, yet because of their Masonic oaths and what-not, the said Occultists did not write about how to actually achieve Scientific Chastity. However Samael Aun Weor did write about techniques to achieve it, and so his writings contain an actual foundation for actually making progress in any Occult Tradition of the White Lodge; whereas many of the groups who follow the teachings of authors who wrote during the Piscean Age, are doing the practices yet without a solid foundation (i.e. see the above link). And most of these Western Occult traditions have fallen apart due to in-fighting and whatnot, and then the divided lodges have attempted to pick up the lost pieces and carry on the tradition with the few pieces that they were able to salvage (for example, the various contemporary Golden Dawn lodges are not the same authentic Golden Dawn of S.L. MacGregor Mathers and Wynn Westcott).
Since Samael Aun Weor was not bound by all of the same oaths of secrecy, he was able to publicly unveil more than what the Occult schools of fragmented traditions were able to work with (side-note: both Dion Fortune and H.P. Blavatsky are said to have raised some red-flags in their writings by getting very close, as in nanometers, to revealing oath-bound teachings).
Now if Samael Aun Weor had any reason to be afraid of getting out-shined by other Occult traditions or was afraid of getting exposed as a "plagiarist", he wouldn't have recommended that his students study the writings of the best authors on Esotericism (Dion Fortune, Eliphas Levi, Huiracocha, Swami Sivananda, Gurdjieff, H.P. Blavatsky, Rudolf Steiner, the Dalai Lama, etc.).
Dechen Norbu wrote:his prophecies don't confirm (what a surprise!),
As far as I'm aware, none of his prophecies can be proven either false or true (yet).
Dechen Norbu wrote:his arguments are beyond speculative, his message is incoherent,
I can see why you might say this, although if you study his teachings extensively you can see that his message is actually very clear and very refined. His usage of terminology seems strange because it utilizes terms from many traditions some of which are very unique like those of Gurdjieff; and mixed with his own style (along with his Colombian-Mexican Spanish dialect in English-translation), comes off as what some have even described as "goofy" at times. But incoherent? Not at all.
Another thing is that his total message is distributed throughout his seventy books (although some say his Pistis Sophia Unveiled
contains his total message if we know what to look for), so if you've read only two or three (or four, or five) of his works, you would very likely see a lot of apparent
contradictions and specific topics that he didn't totally clarify in one particular book. Even if
his explanation of the Gnostic doctrine were only an intellectual fabrication, it was at least ingeniously put together. Samael Aun Weor wrote things about the Skandhas, kleshas & klistas, things related to what is written in the Guhyasamaja Tantra, in relation to Karmamudra, and what he refers to as the lunar bodies and Solar Bodies; that no one else in the west had explicitly written about, and that he most likely could not have known merely from reading a lot of books. (By the way, did you read my previous post in this thread?) Perhaps I'll elaborate on this aspect more later. Although I'm a mere learned-ignoramus, so perhaps someone could refute my words.
Dechen Norbu wrote:there are lot of mistakes when he drinks from other traditions (like Buddhism)
Not necessarily mistakes. Just that Samael Aun Weor mentioned many Buddhist doctrinal points without fully elaborating on them in the full Buddhist context. His motivation was more to introduce people to these aspects of Buddhism in order to clarify points of the Gnostic doctrine, and allow people to understand them more through direct-experience in meditation, rather than giving an entire elaborate Madhyamaka style essay, for example.
Dechen Norbu wrote:his disciples were/ are at each others throats in shameful ways... even considering Western occult landscape one can say that it is bad, really bad. So bad it isn't even wrong.
To imply blaming Samael Aun Weor and his teachings for this, would be almost like blaming the Dalai Lama and the Buddha Dharma for the Dorje Shugden incident. Or almost like blaming the Karmapa and the Buddha Dharma for the 17th Karmapa controversy, etc. Of course all of the above situations are quite a bit different; but the root problem is the same for all of them: The ego.
Dechen Norbu wrote:
I ran across a group affiliated with this fellow when I was a teen. Didn't last long there. What a sad joke that was. It's really shoddy. If I were you Lhug-Pa, I'd stay clear of such sects. They have all the bearings of an unhealthy cult. Just my opinion. At least you can't say you weren't warned.
I'm sorry that you had that experience, it's a common one unfortunately; and not due to the teachings of Samael Aun Weor himself, but because of the many interpretive "Gnostic" movements that arose around the time of his physical death. These various sectarian 'movements' give the Gnostic teachings a bad name, because when we read what these sects have to say, it is usually so far off the mark that one has to wonder if they've even read more than an entire book written by Samael Aun Weor. Samael Aun Weor predicted this would happen:
Samael Aun Weor wrote:"Disgracefully, the younger Gnostic brethren have not studied; they have not lived my doctrine which I have delivered throughout so many years in order for them to attain the psychological liberation. Thus, they themselves have wanted to sabotage the Great Work of the White Brotherhood..." - Revolution of the Dialectic
Now if the mentioned sectarian "Gnostic" movements' understanding of the Gnostic doctrine were more complete, and they were still
at each other's throats; then there would exist more of a reason to look towards the origin of the Gnostic tradition of Samael Aun Weor for the problem. But then again, it is said that Devadatta knew the entire Buddhist doctrine, and he still
tried to sabotage the work of the Master.
Samael Aun Weor wrote:
"An infamous harvest of Hanasmussen
is going to appear, mainly in the South American territories of Venezuela and Colombia. This is simply because all of those little brethren have not dedicated themselves to the disintegration of their ego; they are very lazy—meaning, they are lazy in that sense, because they only want initiations, degrees, powers, etc., and they do not worry about the disintegration of their ego. Therefore, the future that awaits those two countries is, indeed, an infamous harvest of Hanasmussen with double centers of gravity. This is what will occur, unless all of them dedicate themselves in a massive manner to the disintegration of their ego..." - Profound Meditation
Some particularly relevant food-for-thought:
Samael Aun Weor wrote:"Great schools of regeneration have existed through the course of history (it is enough for us to remember the Rosicrucian Alchemical school that became secret in the year 1620). Likewise, it comes into our memory the schools of Aryavarta Ashrama of Tibet, as well as the sect of the Manicheans of Persian origin, and the famous Sufis with their sacred dances, the Templars, etc. All of these were schools of regeneration; the “coitus reservatus” is practiced in all of them. The schools of regeneration constitute the Golden Chain of the White Lodge." - Alchemy and Kabbalah
Samael Aun Weor wrote:"This is the Religion of Wisdom of the ancient Sacerdotal Colleges, of the Gymnosophists or solitary JINNS from Central Asia, of the Iohanes, Samoans, Egyptian Ascetics, ancient Pythagoreans, medieval Rosicrucians, Templars, primeval Masons and other more or less known esoteric Brotherhoods, whose list would occupy a dozen of pages." - Gnostic Magic of the Runes
If you study our resources as we have indicated (mainly through our lectures on Gnostic Radio or those that have been transcribed on the Gnostic Teachings page), you will see that the mystery tradition of Freemasonry is studied and explained in depth within the Gnostic knowledge.
Different groups have said different things: I know and have heard of some Masons who have been pleased by The Perfect Matrimony
(which goes into detail about the Kabbalistic symbolism contained within the rites of the Masons, which otherwise would have remained cryptic given the limitations of some of their resources). Others have rejected the writings of Samael Aun Weor completely, mostly due to the tone of his works, and not their content.
There are many who do not like Samael Aun Weor because of his writing style, since he composed through a Martian influence and idiosyncrasy (relating with the Seven Spiritual Rays described in esotericism). However, what he explains does not contradict what any of the other Initiates or esoteric authors (like Albert Pike, Manly P. Hall, etc.) have said about these subjects.
Also, because he was so open with this knowledge, he has been condemned by many spiritual groups, Rosicrucian, Mason or otherwise, who have 1) either been possessive for ownership of this wisdom or 2) are openly contradicted by what Samael Aun Weor wrote, since what some really practice is a disguised form of Black Magic.
It is certainly not pleasant for some to approach the sensitive subject of spiritual authenticity, but compassion (understanding) is not complacency with ignorance. The Logos Samael is described in the Book of Revelation as the White Rider, from whose mouth (Tantric knowledge of Da'ath) emerges a double-edged sword. This sword, even in Samael Aun Weor's incarnated time, has cut through many people due to its force, and is representative of the conflicts that have emerged in relation to the spreading of this knowledge (since many have remained attached to traditions but without comprehension of them; therefore, in being corrected, a lot of "spiritual" pride has been wounded).
Gnosis refers to a specific form of experiential knowledge, which is contained within the cryptic symbolism of the mystery traditions. As Son of Man pointed out to you, just because a person participates in a tradition does not mean they understand the esotericism of that tradition (indicating that they have Gnosis). Also, if one does not have Gnosis or experiential understanding of a particular tradition (grasping with internal experience from one's consciousness what it signifies), it indicates that they will not likely recognize corruptions to that tradition if there are any present.
If you want to find comments about Samael Aun Weor from Rosicrucians or Masons, you can simply use google. But we will not reiterate for this community the straw-man propoganda being proliferated against him to denigrate his writings. Samael Aun Weor was very conscious of the criticism poised against him from Rosicrucian orders like A.M.O.R.C., and wrote about it in works like The Revolution of Beelzebub
and Igneous Rose
. There are many who are coming to study and appreciate his writings though, and there are others who do not. While the Dharma is the Dharma, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.