The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

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The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Lhug-Pa » Sat Oct 22, 2011 1:14 am

Greetings

Which books of unrestricted availablity, besides Heart Drops of Dharmakaya, have complete Rushen instructions?

Well, actually, the English translation of Heart Drops of Dharmakaya is missing the Rushen practice of purifying the Six Lokas which I believe is related to Longsal.

And is the Guru Yoga practice found within Vajranatha's (John Myrdhin Reynolds) book Oral Tradition From Zhang-Zhung a complete Guru Yoga practice?

It seems to me that if we were to practice Dzogchen on our own, that we should most definitely work first with the, what seem to me to be, Dzogchen prerequisites, i.e. Guru Yoga, Ganachakra Puja or Ganapuja (or at least the Gnostic Communion/Eucharist or the Pancatattva Ritual of Hindu Tantra), Rushen (and/or Semdzin), and Trekchö; before even attempting Thögal.

Is the Bönpo Rushen, and its Mantra, which is the practice of the Six Lokas (related to Longsal?) that is mentioned, but not described, in Heart Drops of Dharmakaya; found within Vajranatha's Oral Tradition From Zhang-Zhung?


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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Josef » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:21 am

The Six Loka Rushen is a common Rushen. It comes from the Buddhist Dzogchen tantras. For instance, Jigme Lingpa also gives this instruction in the Yeshe Lama. The Longsal cycle contains slightly different instructions but the essence is the same.
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby mutsuk » Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:49 am

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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue Oct 25, 2011 2:28 am

mutsuk wrote:Check here, you'll have it all :
http://www.namsebangdzo.com/Dawn_of_Awa ... /16001.htm


Excellent! :applause: :thanks: :twothumbsup:

I'm surprised that I haven't seen that yet, as I've browsed Namsebangdzo quite a bit.

See this link for other books by Jean-Luc Achard as well:

"Instructions on the Primordial A", "Four Lamps", etc.


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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:30 am

Nangwa wrote:The Six Loka Rushen is a common Rushen. It comes from the Buddhist Dzogchen tantras. For instance, Jigme Lingpa also gives this instruction in the Yeshe Lama. The Longsal cycle contains slightly different instructions but the essence is the same.


Ah I see. Thank you.

This Rushen reminds me of Samael Aun Weor's description of Purgatory in his book on Runes, where he writes about how after he had eliminated his egos, he had to purify his mind by burning the remaining seeds of the egos (of samsara) in the Purgatorial Region.

Now I know that Dzogchen is a Complete Path in Itself, without having to first complete the lower Sutra and Tantra Yanas; however the Mahasandhi-Yana is also practiced as the pinnacIe of the Eight lower Yanas as well. So I wonder if Samael Aun Weor completed the Sutrayana and Tantrayana levels first, and thereby eliminated his egos (kleshas, klistas, etc.) by meditating on Emptiness with Ham-Sah (similar to Vase-Breathing but with the Mantra HAM-SAH), and through Inner Heat Yoga (such as Karmamudra), etc.; and then after that began his entrance into the Great Perfection; that is to say, after having completed the gradual path.

Samael Aun Weor wrote:"When the pluralized “I” is dissolved, it leaves in the mind its seeds of perdition.

"The yogis say that one must burn the seeds, incinerate them, reduce them to cosmic dust."

"The purifications were evident, manifest, clear, and positive." - Gnostic Magic of the Runes


Seemingly non-coincidentally, there is a Gnostic Runic Yoga practice where we vocalize the Seven Vowels, of which, each vowel corresponds to a specific chakra (in the Rushen of Purifying the Six Lokas of Samsara, I believe that each Chakra corresponds to each Loka of Samsara).


Image


Seven Vowels corresponding to Seven Chakras:

Image


The Practice of Self-Liberation of the Causes of Six Lokas by Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

Image


Rune Dagaz Gnostic Yoga Practice:

Image


The Vajra Position for the Rushen practice, from Healing with Form, Energy and Light: The Five Elements in Tibetan Shamanism by Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche:

Image




Notice how the asana for the vowel "O" in the above-animated pic for the Gnostic practice, looks very similar to the Vajra position that is described in the Bönpo Rushen practices in Shardza Tashi Gyaltsen's Heart Drops of Dharmakaya by Lopon Tenzin Namdak.

In seeing what I believe was a description of this Rushen in Vajranatha's Oral Tradition From Zhang-Zhung, the accompanying visualization made a huge impression on my mind-stream just by reading it! :reading:

Anyhow, these correspondences are rather uncanny I'd say.


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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Lhug-Pa » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:35 am

Pema Rigdzin wrote:Purifying the seeds of the six lokas is part of all Buddhist khorde rushen practices, not just Namkhai Norbu's Longsal. Instructions for this practice differ in minor ways in the various systems, but it's almost always basically the same thing essentially. I believe one of Norbu Rinpoche's versions of this practice, however, is unique in that it combines Vajrasattva practice with the purification of the six lokas. On the other hand, I've received pith instructions from one of my other lamas on how to combine purification of the seeds of the six lokas with various Yidams in a very similar way.


Thanks for clarifying.
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:07 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Samael Aun Weor's ...

Oh deary me. Been there done that my friend. Decided to wise up and find a real teacher. Western occultism just leads to all this intellectual index-card-ism that you're doing. If you stop trying to stuff all that cr*p into your head and drop it all then you see where it's really at, no offense.
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby padma norbu » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:48 pm

As I said in the Tao Bums forums, Samael Weor may talk about tantra or Vajrayana, but you know what I never saw mentioned in Vajrayana or tantra? Samael Weor. Or anything else he talks about.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby padma norbu » Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:56 pm

Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:
Lhug-Pa wrote:Samael Aun Weor's ...

Oh deary me. Been there done that my friend. Decided to wise up and find a real teacher. Western occultism just leads to all this intellectual index-card-ism that you're doing. If you stop trying to stuff all that cr*p into your head and drop it all then you see where it's really at, no offense.


Yep. Been around that block quite a few times myself.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Lhug-Pa » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:57 am

Karma Dondrup Tashi and padma norbu

Samael Aun Weor himself repeated many times that it is millions of times better to meditate and practice than it is to constantly fill our intellects with a bunch of ideas and theories.

Unfortunately for me, I'm often one to theorize too much; whether in this thread or in general.

Yet I have studied enough Occultism and Buddhism to at least know that Samael Aun Weor is no mere ordinary occultist, or spiritualist or something of the sort. Many people even claim that he plagiarized all his writings; but if that were the case, then how would he make the statements he did, that are quoted in my signature, clear back in the 60's and 70's?

How many people in the west were saying in the 60's and 70's that not all of the Dalai Lamas have been Masters, but that the 14th Dalai Lama is a Master? How many people in the west in the 60's and 70's were refuting the idea that the Bönpo's are black magicians, and were affirming that the Bönpo's are overall actually White Magicians? Probably nobody except for Samael Aun Weor. I don't know how many times I've thought that something that Samael Aun Weor wrote seemed off, but then later confirmed that he was actually correct when studying another source that Samael Aun Weor never referred to. For example:


GnosticTeachings.org wrote:"Let us remember Tsong Khapa who reincarnated in Tibet; he was the Buddha Gautama previously." - Samael Aun Weor, Mental Representations. [Although some Buddhist students may dispute this statement, it was echoed some years earlier in Tibet by Je Phabongkhapa, in Liberation in the Palm of Your Hand, who said that Padmasambhava (the founder of the Nyingma school), Je Tsongkhapa, Atisha, and Buddha Gautama Shakyamuni were all one holy being, not four separate mental continuums.

Tsong Khapa reportedly said, "A female companion is the basis of accomplishment of liberation."


Nevertheless, as interesting and useful as many of the writings of Piscean-era (pre-1960's) Occultists are, I've decided to pretty much study Samael Aun Weor and Dzogchen only now; because time is running out, not only for me, but for almost everyone on this planet it seems. So better to go, for the sake of all, straight for the Highest Teachings: Karmamudra and Dzogchen.

When it comes to teachings that are more on the Sutrayana, Paramitayana, and Tantrayana levels (specifically Karmamudra); I mostly study the writings of Samael Aun Weor (I'm familiar with the Four Seals, the Four Noble Truths, etc.; which are in agreement with the teachings of Samael Aun Weor)

Also, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche wrote that we don't have to change our Religion to practice Dzogchen; because like Gnosis, Mahasandhi is beyond strict traditionalist-identity (of course Atiyoga is based on Direct Transmission, but that's not what I'm talking about here).

Although if anyone knows about any Dravidian Tantra (pre-"Aryan"/pre-Vedic), Phoenician and/or Sumerian (pre-Hebrew) Kabbalah, or Æthiopian/Khemetian teachings that give Karmamudra instructions, and that are on-par with the Gnostic Teachings as taught by Samael Aun Weor; then please let me know, and I'll have to include them in my esoteric curriculum for sure. :reading:


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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:47 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Also, Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche wrote that we don't have to change our Religion to practice Dzogchen; because like Gnosis, Mahasandhi is beyond strict traditionalist-identity (of course Atiyoga is based on Direct Transmission, but that's not what I'm talking about here).



The context of Dzogchen is %100 Buddhist.

If you are a Dzogchen practitioner, there is no point in practicing anything else.

N
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http://atikosha.org
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby mañjughoṣamaṇi » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:23 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Anyhow, these correspondences are rather uncanny I'd say.


They are similar because most of these modern mystical and pagan practices are just warmed over nicked versions of Buddhist and Hindu tantric practices.
སེམས་རྣམ་པར་གྲོལ་བར་བྱའི་ཕྱིར་བྱམས་པ་བསྒོམ་པར་བྱའོ།
“In order to completely liberate the mind, cultivate loving kindness.” -- Maitribhāvana Sūtra
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Nov 10, 2011 4:37 pm

Lhug-Pa wrote:Samael Aun Weor ...


Look back in the day when I liked the occult I was into him. I just grew out of him. I think he rants a lot and his writing is kind of bad. But look if you're getting something out of it more power to ya. Who am I to judge I don't have any realization.
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Dechen Norbu » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:34 pm

Samael Aun Weor and his gnosis are really a poor choice for someone into western's occult scene. His work is shoddy, most is plagiarized, his prophecies don't confirm (what a surprise!), his arguments are beyond speculative, his message is incoherent, there are lot of mistakes when he drinks from other traditions (like Buddhism) his disciples were/ are at each others throats in shameful ways... even considering Western occult landscape one can say that it is bad, really bad. So bad it isn't even wrong.
I ran across a group affiliated with this fellow when I was a teen. Didn't last long there. What a sad joke that was. It's really shoddy. If I were you Lhug-Pa, I'd stay clear of such sects. They have all the bearings of an unhealthy cult. Just my opinion. At least you can't say you weren't warned. ;)
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:50 am

mañjughoṣamaṇi wrote:They are similar because most of these modern mystical and pagan practices are just warmed over nicked versions of Buddhist and Hindu tantric practices.


I would actually agree, although maybe not for the same reasons. If anything, all of these practices (including Buddhism/Sanatana Dharma and Western Occultism) should be giving the Dravidians and other very ancient Primitive (and I mean "Primitive" as in closer to the Primordial, rather than "primitive" as in unsophisticated) cultures much of the credit. However they don't seem to very often.... However the Gnostic Mason Godfrey Higgins interestingly enough gave a lot of credit to the original, very ancient, black-skinned Buddhas (although Samael Aun Weor did write that the very First Root Race of Human Civilization were black-skinned individuals). :buddha1:


Namdrol wrote:The context of Dzogchen is %100 Buddhist. If you are a Dzogchen practitioner, there is no point in practicing anything else.


Well perhaps in many cases. Although everyone is different (yet not separate), and it is taught that Dzogchen can utilize various Skillful-Means of the lower Buddhist vehicles with the practice of Dzogchen. So it seems that Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is implying that even many of the non-Buddhist traditions have within them effective Skillful-Means as well. Fortunately, that which I consider to be "my Religion", specifically and profoundly venerates Vajrayana (see my signature). "My Religion", because the Gnostic Teachings of Samael Aun Weor are what inspired me to seriously aspire to achieve Liberation from samsara.


Samael Aun Weor wrote:"Remember, Gnostic brethren, that the practical synthesis of all the yogas, lodges, orders, religions, schools, systems, etc., is in the Gnosis of the Cosmic Christ. Our great Master, Jesus the Christ, deeply studied Yoga in its entirety and the whole of the ancient wisdom. Then after, he delivered all of this, already digested and perfectly simplified in an absolutely practical way in his Gnosticism.

"There is Gnosis in the Buddhist doctrine, in the Tantric Buddhism from Tibet, in the Zen Buddhism from Japan, in the Chan Buddhism of China, in Sufism, in the Whirling Dervishes, in the Egyptian, Persian, Chaldean, Pythagorean, Greek, Aztec, Mayan, Inca, etc., wisdom. If we carefully study the Christian Gospels, we will find in them Pythagorean mathematics, the Chaldean and Babylonian parable, and the formidable Buddhist moral.

"The system of teaching which was adopted by Jesus was the system of the Essenes. Certainly, the Essenes were one hundred percent Gnostics. Therefore, the Four Gospels are Gnostic Gospels and they cannot be understood without the Maithuna (Sexual Magic).

"It becomes absurd to adulterate Gnosis with different teachings, because the Christian Gospel prohibits adultery. It is absurd to conceive of Gnosis without the Maithuna. We can drink the wine of Gnosis (Divine Wisdom) within a Greek, Buddhist, Sufi, Aztec, Egyptian, etc. cup, yet we must not adulterate this delicious wine with strange doctrines. The practical synthesis of Gnosticism in its absolutely revolutionary way is taught within the Gnostic Institutions. The Gnostic Lumisials from the Gnostic Institutions are esoteric academies and temples of solar liturgy."


I recall reading on the the Dharmawheel forums something about Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche being involved with some form(s) of Western Esotericism, and this may coincide with Leo Zagami's claim that Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche associates with some of the European Grand Orient and/or Egyptian Rite Freemasons (although I'd take this claim with a grain of salt, because Leo Zagami, with all due respect to him, doesn't seem to be the most balanced individual, even though he seems to mean well. On the other hand, I don't see why he would have any motivation to make it up either).

Nevertheless, I mostly agree with you Namdrol in that Dzogchen would supersede everything else, so there would be little if any need to try to continue to fit the puzzle pieces together after we've been Directly Introduced to the Natural State.

Even though Chogyal Namkhai Norbu apparently doesn't mention Karmamudra very much, I've noticed that his teachings contain everything that Samael Aun Weor said is essential for true Spiritual practice:

Birth (related to Yantra Yoga and/or Tsa-Lung, Karmamudra and/or Pranayama), Death (death of the ego, i.e. Contemplation/Meditation), and Sacrifice (Karma Yoga and Bodhicitta); and Ganapuja/Communion or Ganachakra Puja.

Samael Aun Weor also wrote about the necessity of Blessing the Plant-Elementals when working with Occult Medicine. Does Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche teach anything similar to this? :namaste:


Karma Dondrup Tashi wrote:Look back in the day when I liked the occult I was into him. I just grew out of him. I think he rants a lot and his writing is kind of bad. But look if you're getting something out of it more power to ya. Who am I to judge I don't have any realization.


And neither do I. Nonetheless, I'll still address your points below also in response to Dechen Norbu:


Dechen Norbu wrote:Samael Aun Weor and his gnosis are really a poor choice for someone into western's occult scene. His work is shoddy, most is plagiarized,


If Samael Aun Weor plagiarized, then so did just about every other writer on any form of Esotericism. No one has a copyright on knowledge. And yes, there are some instances where Samael Aun Weor repeated other authors more or less word-for-word without citing them. But he also has cited the said un-cited authors elsewhere in his other works; so, frankly, who cares. :shrug:

Also, the Western Occult scene nowadays is overall degenerated because most of these groups have lost some of the essentials of their traditions. For example, many groups follow the teachings of Piscean (pre-1960's) Occultists who wrote about the importance of Sex and Scientific Chastity, yet because of their Masonic oaths and what-not, the said Occultists did not write about how to actually achieve Scientific Chastity. However Samael Aun Weor did write about techniques to achieve it, and so his writings contain an actual foundation for actually making progress in any Occult Tradition of the White Lodge; whereas many of the groups who follow the teachings of authors who wrote during the Piscean Age, are doing the practices yet without a solid foundation (i.e. see the above link). And most of these Western Occult traditions have fallen apart due to in-fighting and whatnot, and then the divided lodges have attempted to pick up the lost pieces and carry on the tradition with the few pieces that they were able to salvage (for example, the various contemporary Golden Dawn lodges are not the same authentic Golden Dawn of S.L. MacGregor Mathers and Wynn Westcott).

Since Samael Aun Weor was not bound by all of the same oaths of secrecy, he was able to publicly unveil more than what the Occult schools of fragmented traditions were able to work with (side-note: both Dion Fortune and H.P. Blavatsky are said to have raised some red-flags in their writings by getting very close, as in nanometers, to revealing oath-bound teachings).

Now if Samael Aun Weor had any reason to be afraid of getting out-shined by other Occult traditions or was afraid of getting exposed as a "plagiarist", he wouldn't have recommended that his students study the writings of the best authors on Esotericism (Dion Fortune, Eliphas Levi, Huiracocha, Swami Sivananda, Gurdjieff, H.P. Blavatsky, Rudolf Steiner, the Dalai Lama, etc.). :reading:


Dechen Norbu wrote:his prophecies don't confirm (what a surprise!),


As far as I'm aware, none of his prophecies can be proven either false or true (yet). :sage:


Dechen Norbu wrote:his arguments are beyond speculative, his message is incoherent,


I can see why you might say this, although if you study his teachings extensively you can see that his message is actually very clear and very refined. His usage of terminology seems strange because it utilizes terms from many traditions some of which are very unique like those of Gurdjieff; and mixed with his own style (along with his Colombian-Mexican Spanish dialect in English-translation), comes off as what some have even described as "goofy" at times. But incoherent? Not at all.

Another thing is that his total message is distributed throughout his seventy books (although some say his Pistis Sophia Unveiled contains his total message if we know what to look for), so if you've read only two or three (or four, or five) of his works, you would very likely see a lot of apparent contradictions and specific topics that he didn't totally clarify in one particular book. Even if his explanation of the Gnostic doctrine were only an intellectual fabrication, it was at least ingeniously put together. Samael Aun Weor wrote things about the Skandhas, kleshas & klistas, things related to what is written in the Guhyasamaja Tantra, in relation to Karmamudra, and what he refers to as the lunar bodies and Solar Bodies; that no one else in the west had explicitly written about, and that he most likely could not have known merely from reading a lot of books. (By the way, did you read my previous post in this thread?) Perhaps I'll elaborate on this aspect more later. Although I'm a mere learned-ignoramus, so perhaps someone could refute my words.


Dechen Norbu wrote:there are lot of mistakes when he drinks from other traditions (like Buddhism)


Not necessarily mistakes. Just that Samael Aun Weor mentioned many Buddhist doctrinal points without fully elaborating on them in the full Buddhist context. His motivation was more to introduce people to these aspects of Buddhism in order to clarify points of the Gnostic doctrine, and allow people to understand them more through direct-experience in meditation, rather than giving an entire elaborate Madhyamaka style essay, for example.


Dechen Norbu wrote:his disciples were/ are at each others throats in shameful ways... even considering Western occult landscape one can say that it is bad, really bad. So bad it isn't even wrong.


To imply blaming Samael Aun Weor and his teachings for this, would be almost like blaming the Dalai Lama and the Buddha Dharma for the Dorje Shugden incident. Or almost like blaming the Karmapa and the Buddha Dharma for the 17th Karmapa controversy, etc. Of course all of the above situations are quite a bit different; but the root problem is the same for all of them: The ego. :twisted: :pig: :soapbox: :rules: :tantrum: :ban: :guns: :crazy: :techproblem: :oops:


Dechen Norbu wrote:I ran across a group affiliated with this fellow when I was a teen. Didn't last long there. What a sad joke that was. It's really shoddy. If I were you Lhug-Pa, I'd stay clear of such sects. They have all the bearings of an unhealthy cult. Just my opinion. At least you can't say you weren't warned. ;)


I'm sorry that you had that experience, it's a common one unfortunately; and not due to the teachings of Samael Aun Weor himself, but because of the many interpretive "Gnostic" movements that arose around the time of his physical death. These various sectarian 'movements' give the Gnostic teachings a bad name, because when we read what these sects have to say, it is usually so far off the mark that one has to wonder if they've even read more than an entire book written by Samael Aun Weor. Samael Aun Weor predicted this would happen:

Samael Aun Weor wrote:"Disgracefully, the younger Gnostic brethren have not studied; they have not lived my doctrine which I have delivered throughout so many years in order for them to attain the psychological liberation. Thus, they themselves have wanted to sabotage the Great Work of the White Brotherhood..." - Revolution of the Dialectic

:spy:

Now if the mentioned sectarian "Gnostic" movements' understanding of the Gnostic doctrine were more complete, and they were still at each other's throats; then there would exist more of a reason to look towards the origin of the Gnostic tradition of Samael Aun Weor for the problem. But then again, it is said that Devadatta knew the entire Buddhist doctrine, and he still tried to sabotage the work of the Master.

Samael Aun Weor wrote:"An infamous harvest of Hanasmussen is going to appear, mainly in the South American territories of Venezuela and Colombia. This is simply because all of those little brethren have not dedicated themselves to the disintegration of their ego; they are very lazy—meaning, they are lazy in that sense, because they only want initiations, degrees, powers, etc., and they do not worry about the disintegration of their ego. Therefore, the future that awaits those two countries is, indeed, an infamous harvest of Hanasmussen with double centers of gravity. This is what will occur, unless all of them dedicate themselves in a massive manner to the disintegration of their ego..." - Profound Meditation



Some particularly relevant food-for-thought: :coffee:


Samael Aun Weor wrote:"Great schools of regeneration have existed through the course of history (it is enough for us to remember the Rosicrucian Alchemical school that became secret in the year 1620). Likewise, it comes into our memory the schools of Aryavarta Ashrama of Tibet, as well as the sect of the Manicheans of Persian origin, and the famous Sufis with their sacred dances, the Templars, etc. All of these were schools of regeneration; the “coitus reservatus” is practiced in all of them. The schools of regeneration constitute the Golden Chain of the White Lodge." - Alchemy and Kabbalah

Samael Aun Weor wrote:"This is the Religion of Wisdom of the ancient Sacerdotal Colleges, of the Gymnosophists or solitary JINNS from Central Asia, of the Iohanes, Samoans, Egyptian Ascetics, ancient Pythagoreans, medieval Rosicrucians, Templars, primeval Masons and other more or less known esoteric Brotherhoods, whose list would occupy a dozen of pages." - Gnostic Magic of the Runes

Almustafa wrote:If you study our resources as we have indicated (mainly through our lectures on Gnostic Radio or those that have been transcribed on the Gnostic Teachings page), you will see that the mystery tradition of Freemasonry is studied and explained in depth within the Gnostic knowledge.

Different groups have said different things: I know and have heard of some Masons who have been pleased by The Perfect Matrimony (which goes into detail about the Kabbalistic symbolism contained within the rites of the Masons, which otherwise would have remained cryptic given the limitations of some of their resources). Others have rejected the writings of Samael Aun Weor completely, mostly due to the tone of his works, and not their content.

There are many who do not like Samael Aun Weor because of his writing style, since he composed through a Martian influence and idiosyncrasy (relating with the Seven Spiritual Rays described in esotericism). However, what he explains does not contradict what any of the other Initiates or esoteric authors (like Albert Pike, Manly P. Hall, etc.) have said about these subjects.

Also, because he was so open with this knowledge, he has been condemned by many spiritual groups, Rosicrucian, Mason or otherwise, who have 1) either been possessive for ownership of this wisdom or 2) are openly contradicted by what Samael Aun Weor wrote, since what some really practice is a disguised form of Black Magic.

It is certainly not pleasant for some to approach the sensitive subject of spiritual authenticity, but compassion (understanding) is not complacency with ignorance. The Logos Samael is described in the Book of Revelation as the White Rider, from whose mouth (Tantric knowledge of Da'ath) emerges a double-edged sword. This sword, even in Samael Aun Weor's incarnated time, has cut through many people due to its force, and is representative of the conflicts that have emerged in relation to the spreading of this knowledge (since many have remained attached to traditions but without comprehension of them; therefore, in being corrected, a lot of "spiritual" pride has been wounded).

Gnosis refers to a specific form of experiential knowledge, which is contained within the cryptic symbolism of the mystery traditions. As Son of Man pointed out to you, just because a person participates in a tradition does not mean they understand the esotericism of that tradition (indicating that they have Gnosis). Also, if one does not have Gnosis or experiential understanding of a particular tradition (grasping with internal experience from one's consciousness what it signifies), it indicates that they will not likely recognize corruptions to that tradition if there are any present.

If you want to find comments about Samael Aun Weor from Rosicrucians or Masons, you can simply use google. But we will not reiterate for this community the straw-man propoganda being proliferated against him to denigrate his writings. Samael Aun Weor was very conscious of the criticism poised against him from Rosicrucian orders like A.M.O.R.C., and wrote about it in works like The Revolution of Beelzebub and Igneous Rose. There are many who are coming to study and appreciate his writings though, and there are others who do not. While the Dharma is the Dharma, everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion.
Last edited by Lhug-Pa on Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:32 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Dechen Norbu » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:10 am

Feel free to believe in what you want. I just gave you a heads up. Now it's entirely up to you. :smile:
By the way there is NOTHING you can say that will change my mind. I didn't stay long with those fellows, but stayed long enough to know them to the point I can really say what I said. So no, I'm sorry but all that is really shoddy work (by the way, the world should have been destroyed already by the passage of Hercolubus or something... probably they gave some sort of justification, but that was the story then). S.A.W. is a charlatan, period. If you are smart, you won't get involved with groups that follow him. You can quote me on this if you want. I don't want you to get offended. I'm giving you my sincere opinion. You don't need to trust it if you don't want to, but I'm speaking my mind plainly so that there remains no doubt about what I think concerning that gentleman (deceased a long time ago).
I'm sorry you had so much trouble in your last post. If I have the time, tomorrow I'l speak a little more with you and explain why I think the way I do more thoroughly, but perhaps in a topic in the lounge. This sub forum is not adequate for such subject, ok?
So we can put this subject to rest and carry on. :smile:

Best wishes.
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Lhug-Pa » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:39 am

Fair enough.

About the Hercolubus topic real quick:


The Secret Doctrine of Anahuac by Samael Aun Weor wrote:However, the scholars cannot in any way ignore that in the Bible there is an extended narration of the journey that every great cyclic generation makes.

Humanity is completely ripe for the supreme punishment. The end of this shameful humanity is near.

The Kabbalistic analysis demonstrates that in the numbers two (2), five (5), zero (0), and zero (0), the secret of the great catastrophe is enclosed. Whosoever has understanding, let him understand for there is wisdom therein.

Unfortunately, people do not know how to comprehend the profound meaning of certain Kabbalistic numbers. Lamentably, they interpret everything literally.

We must wait in cold blood for the supreme hour of punishment for many and of martyrdom for others.



What is Hercolubus?

What is Hercolubus? (thread # 2)


But like you said; perhaps another time in another relevant sub-forum.

So yea I'll call it good for now regarding this issue; and if anyone else or myself starts a new topic regarding it, I'll just transfer the above information from this post to the new thread.


Best Regards
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby Dechen Norbu » Fri Nov 11, 2011 2:47 am

Foe anyone interested to know what we were talking about:
http://www.mundoandino.com/Colombia/Samael-Aun-Weor
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby padma norbu » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:55 am

Dechen Norbu wrote:Foe anyone interested to know what we were talking about:
http://www.mundoandino.com/Colombia/Samael-Aun-Weor


Ay-yi-yi...

Master and Avatar
Throughout his books and lectures there are many instances in which Samael Aun Weor states that he is a Master and that his inner being, Samael, is the Avatar of Aquarius. For example, in The Aquarian Message, he writes, "the Maitreya Buddha Samael is the Kalki Avatar of the New Age." The Kalki avatar and Maitreya Buddha, he claimed, are the same "White Horse Rider" of the book of Revelation.Andrew Dawson New Era, New Religions, p. 56, Ashgate Publishing Ltd., 2007 ISBN 978-0754654339
He also states that he completed the Great Work of Self-Realization in the previous Manvantara and had been living on Earth for millions of years, as a bodhisattva of compassion, before becoming a fallen angel. He stated that this is why Samael is synonymous with both a demonic connotation, such as "blind God," as well as an angel,Gustave Davidson A Dictionary of Angels, p. 255, The Free Press, 1971 ISBN 0-02-907052-X and it was only in his most recent incarnation that he paid his karmic debts, and became an upstanding bodhisattva once again.
In The Revolution of Beelzebub, Samael Aun Weor relates how he came in contact with Beelzebub and convinced him to leave the rank and file of the Black Lodge, directed by Jahve the God of the Jews. In 1950, with the publication of The Revolution of Beelzebub, Samael Aun Weor would declare how all the evil in the Western world is concentrated in the Vatican.
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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Re: The Rushen Preliminaries of Bönpo Dzogchen

Postby padma norbu » Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:57 am

BTW, as far as the "non-coincidence" of the runic yoga up there, it's about as "non-coincidental" as the yoga exercises in Futhark, which is just guesswork mapped onto other traditions. There is no historical basis to the "yoga".
"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron
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