Triyik Yeshe Lama.

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Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby kalden yungdrung » Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:58 pm


The 18de Tibetan Dzogchen Master Jigmed Lingpa, would be the author of a meditation guide titled: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

- Can somebody explain what the subjects are in above mentioned meditation guide?
- For what purpose is the guide written?


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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby heart » Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:31 pm

kalden yungdrung wrote:
The 18de Tibetan Dzogchen Master Jigmed Lingpa, would be the author of a meditation guide titled: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

- Can somebody explain what the subjects are in above mentioned meditation guide?
- For what purpose is the guide written?


Mutsog Marro
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A translation is available here: http://www.snowlionpub.com/html/product_9836.html

It covers the path of Dzogchen Mengakde for the best practitioners (rushan, trechö and tögal), the medium practitioners (powa) and the lowest practitioners (attain rebirth in a pure land).

/magnus
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby padma norbu » Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:24 pm

heart wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:
The 18de Tibetan Dzogchen Master Jigmed Lingpa, would be the author of a meditation guide titled: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

- Can somebody explain what the subjects are in above mentioned meditation guide?
- For what purpose is the guide written?


Mutsog Marro
KY


A translation is available here: http://www.snowlionpub.com/html/product_9836.html

It covers the path of Dzogchen Mengakde for the best practitioners (rushan, trechö and tögal), the medium practitioners (powa) and the lowest practitioners (attain rebirth in a pure land).

/magnus



Apparently, there are some errors in that translation. It is also prohibitively expensive for some people. A supposedly better and cheaper version is Tony Duff's translation in PDF format for $25:
http://www.tibet.dk/pktc/transpaper.htm#KhenchenPN

I have not read either, just passing along some information I found elsewhere.
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby heart » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:14 pm

padma norbu wrote:
heart wrote:
kalden yungdrung wrote:
The 18de Tibetan Dzogchen Master Jigmed Lingpa, would be the author of a meditation guide titled: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

- Can somebody explain what the subjects are in above mentioned meditation guide?
- For what purpose is the guide written?


Mutsog Marro
KY


A translation is available here: http://www.snowlionpub.com/html/product_9836.html

It covers the path of Dzogchen Mengakde for the best practitioners (rushan, trechö and tögal), the medium practitioners (powa) and the lowest practitioners (attain rebirth in a pure land).

/magnus



Apparently, there are some errors in that translation. It is also prohibitively expensive for some people. A supposedly better and cheaper version is Tony Duff's translation in PDF format for $25:
http://www.tibet.dk/pktc/transpaper.htm#KhenchenPN

I have not read either, just passing along some information I found elsewhere.


That is not the Yeshe Lama, Tony Duff have a translation of the Yeshe Lama but it sure isn't $25. Sangye Khandro did an earlier translation of Yeshe Lama that was considered not good enough. The link to snowlion is to her and Lama Chonam re-translation of the Yeshe Lama. It is expensive, but well worth the money.

/magnus
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby padma norbu » Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:39 pm

Perhaps I linked to the wrong book. Tony Duff has a version called "Wisdom Guru" as per this discussion:

"There is actually a better translation since that book came out. It is by Tony Duff.

Its called Wisdom Guru by Tony Duff. (Wisdom Guru is the english translation of yeshe lama).

At the time of that other thread, it was not known that the snowlion pub was flawed in a lot of ways. I hope I was not responsible for ralis spending $100 LOL. "

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/to ... ogal-book/
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby heart » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:53 am

padma norbu wrote:Perhaps I linked to the wrong book. Tony Duff has a version called "Wisdom Guru" as per this discussion:


It is also very pricey, at least it used to be $75 for a pdf.

/magnus
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby Yontan » Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:27 am

padma norbu wrote:Apparently, I found some guy on the internet whom I've never met nor know anything about saying that there are some errors in that translation. [...]
I have not read either, just passing along some information I found elsewhere.


Fixed that for ya. :thumbsup:
Gotta love the 'net.

Not directed against you PN [and I do appreciate you posting the link] but in general, it's good for us to reflect on how much was sacrificed by some of these lineage holders just to bring these teachings into our era. This ain't just a book, and $100 ain't nothin but money.
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby heart » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:02 pm

Yontan wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Apparently, I found some guy on the internet whom I've never met nor know anything about saying that there are some errors in that translation. [...]
I have not read either, just passing along some information I found elsewhere.


Fixed that for ya. :thumbsup:
Gotta love the 'net.

Not directed against you PN [and I do appreciate you posting the link] but in general, it's good for us to reflect on how much was sacrificed by some of these lineage holders just to bring these teachings into our era. This ain't just a book, and $100 ain't nothin but money.


I have bought several of Tony Duffs translations and also the Yeshe Lama and the Guhyagarbha Tantra translation with Longchenpas long commentary ($150) from Snowlion and I never for a moment regretted buying those. I am incredibly grateful for the effort these and other translators made. To the best of my knowledge none of them is actually surviving on the money they might or might not be making from their translations.

Money is nothing compared with Dharma.

/magnus
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby padma norbu » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:31 pm

Yontan wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Apparently, I found some guy on the internet whom I've never met nor know anything about saying that there are some errors in that translation. [...]
I have not read either, just passing along some information I found elsewhere.


Fixed that for ya. :thumbsup:
Gotta love the 'net.

Not directed against you PN [and I do appreciate you posting the link] but in general, it's good for us to reflect on how much was sacrificed by some of these lineage holders just to bring these teachings into our era. This ain't just a book, and $100 ain't nothin but money.



Lame. This exact sentiment is expressed in my original choice of wording "Apparently..." and "I have not read either, just passing along some information I found elsewhere." Also, "fixed that for you" is internet speak for "you are wrong," so don't try to cover your ass with kind words. Back-handed compliments are lame, too.

The entire internet is the information superhighway full of people I never met before. But, I have been following Tao Bums forums for quite a while. Just registered the other day, because I forgot my initial username/password combo.

Also, for you and heart, money is not that important when you have enough of it. Let's not brag about being so comfortable, please. I doubt you'd be so cavalier about dropping $100+ on a dharma book if you were just a paycheck or two from living on the street in a major city with no family to bail you out. Because I said a book might be prohibitively expensive for some, it is not a necessary cue for everyone to chime in about how little they care about money. That is also lame and showy.

Feel free to point out now how I'm the critical one. I will be very put in my place and suprised. :rolling:
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:49 pm

I've never read the previous version of Sangye Khandro and Lama Chonam's translation, but I have read the new one. Can't say I've found a single error in it. It's a very clear and straightforward translation.
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby Pero » Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:50 pm

Yontan wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Apparently, I found some guy on the internet whom I've never met nor know anything about saying that there are some errors in that translation. [...]
I have not read either, just passing along some information I found elsewhere.


Fixed that for ya. :thumbsup:
Gotta love the 'net.

Not directed against you PN [and I do appreciate you posting the link] but in general, it's good for us to reflect on how much was sacrificed by some of these lineage holders just to bring these teachings into our era. This ain't just a book, and $100 ain't nothin but money.

I think this actually originated from Tony Duff but I don't know if he was referring to the old or new edition. And yeah, the teachings are priceless, but if you go in the extreme with this view then why not just charge trillions for them?
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby Yontan » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:16 am

padma norbu wrote:
Yontan wrote:
padma norbu wrote:Apparently, I found some guy on the internet whom I've never met nor know anything about saying that there are some errors in that translation. [...]
I have not read either, just passing along some information I found elsewhere.


Fixed that for ya. :thumbsup:
Gotta love the 'net.

Not directed against you PN [and I do appreciate you posting the link] but in general, it's good for us to reflect on how much was sacrificed by some of these lineage holders just to bring these teachings into our era. This ain't just a book, and $100 ain't nothin but money.



Lame. This exact sentiment is expressed in my original choice of wording "Apparently..." and "I have not read either, just passing along some information I found elsewhere." Also, "fixed that for you" is internet speak for "you are wrong," so don't try to cover your ass with kind words. Back-handed compliments are lame, too.

The entire internet is the information superhighway full of people I never met before. But, I have been following Tao Bums forums for quite a while. Just registered the other day, because I forgot my initial username/password combo.

Also, for you and heart, money is not that important when you have enough of it. Let's not brag about being so comfortable, please. I doubt you'd be so cavalier about dropping $100+ on a dharma book if you were just a paycheck or two from living on the street in a major city with no family to bail you out. Because I said a book might be prohibitively expensive for some, it is not a necessary cue for everyone to chime in about how little they care about money. That is also lame and showy.

Feel free to point out now how I'm the critical one. I will be very put in my place and suprised. :rolling:


I'm most certainly the critical one. You have presumably not meant any harm, but have put forth the idea that "by appearances" Sangye Khandro's translation is flawed. You base this assertion on a single instance of e-forum gossip. That, by definition is lame. Your use of the term "apparent" is harmful. Don't do that. [I do not mean any back-handed compliments. I want you to see that you are spreading malinformation. My "ass" is stinky and bare, but I will allow that what you are doing is not on purpose or even conscious, but nonetheless important to notice.]
I have the original, another translator's rough draft, SK's translation and oral commentary; no translation of this sort of work will be perfect, but I'm happy with hers.
Tony has some fine translations, but this is not the only of his works of texts previously translated that make a point to note how his is superior. He has a personal interest in selling his translations, I'm sure. We all need to eat. Grain of salt.
As for money, I'm raising three kids in a too-big house, after having been laid off for eight months, so I have no room to brag about finances, but I can bet most of the people who gawk at a $100 book pay four to eight times that in monthly rent. We are trying to subvert eons of negativity in one lifetime. Perspective.
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby padma norbu » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:30 am

:thumbsup: congrats on rising to the challenge? Also... see Pero's response. I have zero remorse. Why? Because I did nothing wrong, no matter how hard you look for it. I had just read this other forum, literally, the day before this thread began and I literally posted my FIRST response from memory to help. My second response (after Heart's) was to clarify (complete with link pulled from my browser history). Yours? Just bullshit. Start to finish. Bullshit. :thanks:

Case in point:

Yontan wrote:Tony has some fine translations, but this is not the only of his works of texts previously translated that make a point to note how his is superior. He has a personal interest in selling his translations, I'm sure. We all need to eat. Grain of salt.


Right... I suppose that's why he responded to my request for the book with a brief dismissal. Because he wanted to sell it to me by not selling it to me, even after I mentioned that Snow Lion would sell me their version if I proved I have received transmission (which I have several times). Yeah... hmmm... Duff apparently wants to sell it so bad that his full response was a complete mystery to the uninitiated, along the lines of "there's no point in saying more than this, but I won't sell it to you" (paraphrased).
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby Dechen Norbu » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:23 pm

Fellows, can you try to exchange posts without personally attacking each other? :smile:

:thanks:
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby padma norbu » Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:54 pm

Dechen Norbu wrote:Fellows, can you try to exchange posts without personally attacking each other? :smile:

:thanks:


Sorry to bring out the heavy artillary (a "bad" word) to get the point across more bluntly.

I just find it absurd that he came at me with a criticism and defense of the lineage holders who are able to get this material to us and then ends by apparently casting aspersions on Tony Duff (ie. in so many words saying that Duff finds fault with other translations so he can make a buck off selling his own).

Anyway, no hard feelings. Like the other fellow, I'm just calling 'em as I see 'em. :hug:

This reminds me of a thread I almost started the other day: "Something I've noticed about Tibetan lamas... they show great restraint." Really, you have to develop a personal relationship with one for a very long time before he might yell at you a little bit to make his point. Usually, anyway. There's that one lama on Youtube who seems to love to pick on his students (I forget his name).
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby Malcolm » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:17 pm

padma norbu wrote::thumbsup: congrats on rising to the challenge? Also... see Pero's response. I have zero remorse. Why? Because I did nothing wrong, no matter how hard you look for it. I had just read this other forum, literally, the day before this thread began and I literally posted my FIRST response from memory to help. My second response (after Heart's) was to clarify (complete with link pulled from my browser history). Yours? Just bullshit. Start to finish. Bullshit. :thanks:

Case in point:

Yontan wrote:Tony has some fine translations, but this is not the only of his works of texts previously translated that make a point to note how his is superior. He has a personal interest in selling his translations, I'm sure. We all need to eat. Grain of salt.


Right... I suppose that's why he responded to my request for the book with a brief dismissal. Because he wanted to sell it to me by not selling it to me, even after I mentioned that Snow Lion would sell me their version if I proved I have received transmission (which I have several times). Yeah... hmmm... Duff apparently wants to sell it so bad that his full response was a complete mystery to the uninitiated, along the lines of "there's no point in saying more than this, but I won't sell it to you" (paraphrased).



All this business of "restricted books" is elitist bullshit. Gyurme Dorje's translation of Longchenpa's commentary of Guhyagarbha is avaialble for free and to anyone with a browser.

Every classical Dzogchen text can be read by anyone who knows Tibetan and can downloaded for free from TBRC.

The time has passed for so called "restricted translations".

While I respect the right of a given terton to maintain brand control over his treasures, in terms of classical literature, there should be no more "restricted" texts. Its a bunch of bullshit, and these days it is perpetuated mostly by westerners.

N
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby padma norbu » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:44 pm

Namdrol,

Well, to be fair, I think Tony didn't want to sell it to me for good reasons; either he didn't want me to get mixed up and confused or waste my time in a practice I was not ready for or hurt myself or whatever the possible disadvantages are of starting thogal before you're ready. If you own texts about thogal would you fax me a copy? Probably not, eh? :D
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby Malcolm » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:59 pm

padma norbu wrote:Namdrol,

Well, to be fair, I think Tony didn't want to sell it to me for good reasons; either he didn't want me to get mixed up and confused or waste my time in a practice I was not ready for or hurt myself or whatever the possible disadvantages are of starting thogal before you're ready. If you own texts about thogal would you fax me a copy? Probably not, eh? :D


You can read all about togal on the internet.

I own many texts about togal, hundreds of them. No one asked me for my credentials to buy them. Many I downloaded. Others I bought in Tibet. Others I had shipped from India.

It is appalling that books in Tibetan that freely available to anyone with a buck can are "restricted" in English.

Things will be changing soon, I guarantee it.
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http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby Pero » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:18 pm

Namdrol wrote:I own many texts about togal, hundreds of them. No one asked me for my credentials to buy them. Many I downloaded. Others I bought in Tibet. Others I had shipped from India.

It is appalling that books in Tibetan that freely available to anyone with a buck can are "restricted" in English.


Hm yes, but I actually think this might be due to Tibetan culture. Perhaps they wouldn't think to read such books unless they got transmission or something. I also heard that even if they did read them, most regular Tibetans wouldn't understand they're saying.

Things will be changing soon, I guarantee it.

Why do you think that?
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Re: Triyik Yeshe Lama.

Postby Silent Bob » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:36 pm

Elitist or not, I really think that the translator should be the one who decides how their work is distributed and to whom. I've seen the whole "secret handshake" routine carried to ridiculous extremes, but after all, it's only through the efforts of the lotsawa that a particular translation exists at all.

Chris
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