Tsa Lung

[Virgo]

I don't want to do any of that crap. I also don't want to sit around and hold my breath weirdly! Please join me in another round of this nonsense!

Really, theres nothing bad about holding your breath. It rocks. And you don't need to do anything like inner heat to hold your breath.

Kevin

[padma norbu]

I only hold my breath when smoking drugs. Just kidding.

BTW, pretty sure Tenzin is of the opinion TsaLung can be learned from a book. Because he specifically requests of his audience in Tibetan Sound Healing that they do the 5 TsaLung exercises he included at the end of the book. And I don't get the impression in any way that he expects or implied people to go out and find a teacher to learn. His whole angle is very much like trying to get the info out there to regular people and explain it as easily as possible. Thus the CDs and DVDs that come with each book and the encouragement to just begin doing and keeping up the practice.

[Pero]

I was speaking about gtummo / tummo practice. This book is translations of 2/3 of Vairocana's texts. The third which is not covered in this book is about tummo practice, which is apparently somewhat dangerous to try to learn from a book. This is mentioned at the bottom of page 1 of Adriano's Foreward.

Ah yes, excuse my ignorance, been a while since I've read the book. It just says the text is not available though.

I don't think so. Just because something is in a public book does not mean it is necessarily safe to do for just anyone on his own.

I don't think Namkhai Norbu would publish a potentially dangerous book without any warning. If there is a warning somewhere, I don't remember it.

Well, first you have a warning to consult with your doctor before doing any of the exercises in the book and that the writers etc. are not responsible for any injuries resulting from doing exercises in the book. And then you have Adriano telling you (in the very foreword the third text is mentioned) that for practice of Yantra it is indispensable to receive the oral instructions from one of the authorized instructors.
In any case it's up to you.

As for Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche's book, I think those exercises are much easier than Yantra, but it's been a while since I've read that book too and I don't have it at hand to check. If you're really interested in Yantra I recommend to at least get the video on the 8 movements, they're explained very well. It's the only thing I also learned from an instructor but except a check on my posture, some extra advice and opportunity (all invaluable certainly) to ask questions there was no difference with when I learned from the video. I think there will be also videos on the first and second levels of yantra, with instructions too, but not 100% sure.

[padma norbu]

Actually, it says a translation of the text is not available. That's how I read it, anyway.

[Pero]

Actually, it says a translation of the text is not available. That's how I read it, anyway.

Yeah it's a little vague but that paragraph starts with "The Original Tibetan text", after which there is no mention of a translation and if you look at the note it says that that text "was owned" and "consisted of", which implies the Tibetan text is lost.

[Virgo]

Actually, it says a translation of the text is not available. That's how I read it, anyway.

Yeah it's a little vague but that paragraph starts with "The Original...

But what is original?

Kevn

[Sönam]

Tummo is not sitting around all day holding your breath weirdly.
And you can't learn tsalung from a book, that's for sure. I'm not even sure if you can learn Yantra Yoga truly from a book--though I don't profess to know every system of such things.

In Kagyu traditions, (and, I think, in Sakya and Geluk as well) these practices are expressly for generating a state of mind relating to bliss, which is useful for recognizing Mind's Nature, Etc., and which can ultimately lead to the Nirmanakaya. That's the basic gist of it....Now, perhaps someone can comment on whether or not Nyingma traditions view such methods similarly.

Lama Kunga is also teaching Tsa Lung, not only writting books ... and I'm happy to follow first lesson tomorrow

Sönam

[Mariusz]

Tummo is not sitting around all day holding your breath weirdly.
And you can't learn tsalung from a book, that's for sure. I'm not even sure if you can learn Yantra Yoga truly from a book--though I don't profess to know every system of such things.

In Kagyu traditions, (and, I think, in Sakya and Geluk as well) these practices are expressly for generating a state of mind relating to bliss, which is useful for recognizing Mind's Nature, Etc., and which can ultimately lead to the Nirmanakaya. That's the basic gist of it....Now, perhaps someone can comment on whether or not Nyingma traditions view such methods similarly.

Tsalung is supplementary tool in Dzogchen. One can receive it after 3 year-retreat traditionally, or occasionally it is available for westerners after accumulation of ngondro, or even 10% of ngondro, as very precious gift To Tummo practise alone can indeed be very dangerous, for body and mind, without pointing-out clarrficationss on for example vase breathing, and tsalung -a helpful tool for improvement of tummo. These practices are for generating the 4 types of joys and even are supplementary for Dzogchen beginners because one becomes far more "skilled" to "get" a direct introduction from dzogchen master. All these practices are available e.g. for students of Gangteng Rinpoche in Nyingma Pema Lingpa cycle of Khandro Nyinthig where is anuyoga included.

[Pero]

Actually, it says a translation of the text is not available. That's how I read it, anyway.

Yeah it's a little vague but that paragraph starts with "The Original...

But what is original?

LOL...

[padma norbu]

Actually, it says a translation of the text is not available. That's how I read it, anyway.

Yeah it's a little vague but that paragraph starts with "The Original Tibetan text", after which there is no mention of a translation and if you look at the note it says that that text "was owned" and "consisted of", which implies the Tibetan text is lost.

Interesting, I never bothered to check the notes for the Forward and if I did I probably wouldn't have been so adept at deciphering that it was lost without the actual words "the text has been lost." I'd probably just think they were giving the full history of the text the way they always explain the lineage and history of everything. I do agree with you now, though, that this seems to be the correct interpretation, so I'm glad I brought it up. That indicates that we shouldn't just assume what is in the book is perfectly safe for any fool to pick up and use

...and, indeed...

Also, having just read the whole thing looking for the words you mentioned "was owned" and "consisted of" (prior to realizing you were talking about the note), I rediscovered the final paragraph where Adriano says "it is indispensable to receive oral instructions from one of the authorized instructors"... so that answers my earlier question about whether we can learn it from the book.

[Pero]

I just noticed that the DVDs I was talking about before have been published. Explanation and demonstration of all the preliminaries, yantras, some pranayama and the vajra wave. Sounds pretty awesome. They're available from the Italian SSI Webshop, don't know about US. If you can't go to a course this will definitely be better than learning just from the book.

[padma norbu]

I just noticed that the DVDs I was talking about before have been published. Explanation and demonstration of all the preliminaries, yantras, some pranayama and the vajra wave. Sounds pretty awesome. They're available from the Italian SSI Webshop, don't know about US. If you can't go to a course this will definitely be better than learning just from the book.

But then the thrill of the element of danger is missing!

[Pastabodhi]

There is an amazing and truly experiential teaching by Khyentse Yeshe Namkhai about tsa lung practices.
It's a four sessions audio teaching entitled something like: "the yoga of prana"
I can't remember right now where did I download it but it shouldn't be difficult to find.

[Virgo]

Thank you Pastabodhi.

Kevin

[climb-up]

There is an amazing and truly experiential teaching by Khyentse Yeshe Namkhai about tsa lung practices.
It's a four sessions audio teaching entitled something like: "the yoga of prana"
I can't remember right now where did I download it but it shouldn't be difficult to find.

Sorry for the thread bump, but does anyone have a reference for this audio? Is it available anywhere?

[Jyotish]

So it seems like tsa lung and tummo are different systems. Is that true? May be the have same effects on subtle body?

[tingdzin]

So it seems like tsa lung and tummo are different systems. Is that true? May be the have same effects on subtle body?

No, they are not. Tummo is one practice within the framework of tsalung. The best response to the Original Question in this exceptionally noisy thread came from Mariusz. As far as the Bonpo method, the five (very excellent) practices in Tenzin Wangyal's small book are just an introduction to a more complete tsalung practice taught elsewhere, and regularly, especially by Alejandro Chaoul-Reich, all over the world.

[heart]

So it seems like tsa lung and tummo are different systems. Is that true? May be the have same effects on subtle body?

Tummo is a practice based on the system of tsa (channels) and lung (winds).

/magnus

[TaTa]

So it seems like tsa lung and tummo are different systems. Is that true? May be the have same effects on subtle body?

No, they are not. Tummo is one practice within the framework of tsalung. The best response to the Original Question in this exceptionally noisy thread came from Mariusz. As far as the Bonpo method, the five (very excellent) practices in Tenzin Wangyal's small book are just an introduction to a more complete tsalung practice taught elsewhere, and regularly, especially by Alejandro Chaoul-Reich, all over the world.

Whats the original tantra from wich this Tsa Lung practices came? Im very ignorant of bompo linages

[Jyotish]

So there are two things being said. One that tsa lung supplements tummo and the other that tummo is a practice within different practices that work on tsa lung. could we say tummo is a more advanced form that comes much after some original practices that work with tsa lung directly?

There is Tulku lobsang which gives open retreats on tsa lung and tummo which is why I was considering them different. Do you guys know about this? Tulkulobsang.org
his website does describe these two retreats distinctly in that the tsa lung is not hinted about as something that burns karma as explicitly not it is mentioned in the tummo retreats.