We are not talking only about LSD here. The other problem with this research is that in the real world (as opposed to the laboratory) one never acquires pure LSD from drug dealers.Acchantika wrote:
"From our own work and from a review of the literature, we believe that pure LSD ingested in moderate doses does not damage chromosones in vivo, does not cause detectable genetic damage, and is not a tetrogen or a carcinogen in man."
~ LSD and Genetic Damage, 1971. Dishotsky et al.
"The available data suggest that pure LSD does not cause chromosomal abnormalities, spontaneous abortions, or congenital malformations."
~ Drugs in Pregnancy and Lactation, 2008. Briggs et al.
Weak argument (though true to a point), but now you are comparing taking psychedelics to learning Madhyamaka? Your arguments are becoming more and more brittle.Teaching tantra or Madhyamaka to the uninitiated can result in psychological trauma. So can watching The Exorcist. Psychology is fragile.
So you think we can make everybody happier and more sociable by feeding them MDMA (and overlooking the damage it does to serotonin transporters, memory loss, liver damage, etc and all the other post usage after effects?). Or maybe we get everybody to smoke and drink coffee to up their work performance (and overlook the health issues and what happens when they start going into withdrawal in the workplace?)Both of these are incredibly weak claims, obviously not true in all cases (in today's world taking all sorts of drugs clearly improves sociability in many cases, whether MDMA on a night out or caffeine and nicotine in the workplace).
A little more research will show you that memory loss is definitely not linked solely to marijuana use. As for medical usage, I am not denying that some of these drugs have a medical use (LSD was originally developed to deal with migranes) all I have been saying is that they are not a valid replacement nor are they an aid for meditative practice.Memory loss is mainly, perhaps only, directly linked to cannabis - which also has beneficial implications in the treatment of chronic pain, OCD, Tourettes, glaucoma, AIDS, multiple sclerosis, naseau, asthma, epilepsy, depression, anxiety, addiction withdrawal, post-polio syndrome, Alzheimers etc.
Whatever, I can’t prove it was pure LSD you can’t prove it wasn’t so we are wasting our time on this point. Are you under the impression that pure LSD is commercially available anyway?It probably wasn't LSD. At the very least, it probably wasn't solely LSD. Mixing up prescriptions can kill you, there is no reason why mixing other drugs wouldn't.
This is bullshit, anybody that has taken psychedelics can verify to you that this statement is crap. The first time you take LSD (for example) you feel that you are NEVER going to be able to think straight again.People don't actually think they can fly, turn into a glass of orange juice etc. Part of the medical definition of a psychedelic and hallucinogenic drug is that they leave the intellect mostly in tact, or occasionally increased in capacity. This is the case with classical psychedelics, like LSD etc., and their analogues.
So hallucination and deliria are now two separate things?Datura, Ketamine, GBH, PCP, Ibogaine and similar are deliriants and/or dissociatives, not psychedelics proper. Unlike pure psychedelics, they produce "true" hallucinations, that is, fantasies indistinguishable from reality, with only some (or none) of the reputed effects of classic psychedelics.
Sipping a cup of Earl Grey tea with my old aunt on a Sunday afternoon is not dangerous for the uninitiated and unprepared. Sitting uninitiated and unprepared for a session of Anapanasati meditation is not dangerous.Anything is dangerous to the unitiated and unprepared.
You are sure that they don’t? I know that they do. I have seen it.… People don't sell their bodies on the streets so that they can buy the next Call of Duty or whatever.
What a ridiculous statement. In order to become physically addicted to heroin (for example) there has to be a social or psychological motivation for continuous use. All forms of addiction are symptomatic. It’s not like you wake up one day physically addicted to a substance.The key difference is that psychological addiction is always symptomatic of something else. Whereas physical addiction is not necessarily.
I agree 100%… but never is it the singular cause.
And this is the point where our opinions polarize, I believe that psychedelics do not induce an ideal state of mind. Quite the contrary actually.Some psychedelics, under the right conditions, can induce a state of mind which is -the- ideal state of mind, and what Buddha actually means, what every religion has a word for, albeit temporarily.
Here you are referring to yourself, yes? Because, I think you will find, if you read my earlier “autobiographical” response to Karma Dhondrup Tashi, that I have taken the substances myself and no longer take the substances because I know from direct personal, and intellectual, experience that they do not in any way help one achieve real meditative experience.Note that your extensive intellectual and personal experience is based on not actually taking any of these substances yourself.
gregkavarnos wrote:a psychedelic crazed tripper jumping into a bonfire
gregkavarnos wrote:But, don't you feel silly, somebody that has never taken psychedelics and/or other types of drugs, trying to convince somebody with personal, intellectual and professional experience of drug use (and abuse) of your obviously misinformed view?
Except that my decision is based on personal experience and information and that I, like you, ignored "scare tactics and superstition and lies" only to find out that the "scare tactics and superstition and lies" are actually based on information, reality and truth.
Please feel free to play out your tragi-comic fantasy.:
Now this is an absolute crock of shit....In short, you are only a Buddhist today because of LSD. Ironic, no?
gregkavarnos wrote:Now this is an absolute crock of shit.
So are anabolic steroids, that does not mean that one should then take anabolics now does it?ryu wrote:The compounds in Ayahuasca are DMT (di-methyl-tryptamine) Harmine, Harmaline and Tetrahydraharmaline. All of these molecules are naturally produced by the human body.
Cigarettes taste disgusting but people smoke them. Alchol intoxication can lead to vomiting, pooping and urinating but people still take it. Heroin leads to vomiting and severe constipation but people still take it. The list goes on... Basically just because a drug may have nasty side effects does not mean that somebody is not going to take it.The latter beta-carbolines can be toxic in HIGH DOSES but you would need to consume a hell of alot of Ayahuasca to reach such a dose and Ayahuasca is not something that is in danger of being abused in recreational and high doses as it tastes absolutely disgusting and the ceremony is often difficult for example pooping and projectile vomiting without warning.
Source please.It completely detoxes your whole system and re-balances you.
Sits in the place of damaged doapmine receptors??? Damaged dopamine receptors lead to craving and relapse??? More sources please.The Harmine in the Ayahuasca helps addicts by sitting in place of the damaged dopamine receptors in the brain. It is the damaged dopamine receptors that make an addict crave and relapse.
Many people all over the world exhibit these qualities without ever having taken any drug.Serotonin is said to be linked to to happiness, empathy, contentment and inner peace.The groups studied in South America that use Ayahuasca on a regular basis have been shown to exhibit all these qualities.
I believe that you helped yourself get where you are now. Actually I am 100% sure of it. Good on you for kicking the habits!I believe Ayahuasca helped me get to where i am now whereas prior to this nothing else worked.
himalayanspirit wrote:I was reading about the experiences of various people who attended such ceremonies in the Amazonian jungle retreats. They described seeing various creatures, meeting gods, spirits and other things. Is it just hallucination?
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