YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

when to doubt a scientific consensus - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

when to doubt a scientific consensus

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby PeterB » Thu Apr 15, 2010 3:17 pm

The cloud of ash from Volcanic activity in Iceland has now grounded all aircraft across northern Europe.....
A spokesman for the UK meterological office said that the effects on climate were impossible to calculate at the moment..
All tips on how to prevent future volcanic activity gratefully received..now wheres that tinfoil hat..

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:53 pm



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4346
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:54 am


User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4346
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Apr 16, 2010 3:00 am


User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby Dan74 » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:12 am

_/|\_

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby Ben » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:48 am

Hi Peter
In Australia, the term true believer has an altogether different connotation to one you might be after. In Australia, the term does not usually indicate One who is strongly attached to a particular belief or True-believer syndrome, a term used by skeptics to describe an irrational, persistent belief in the paranormal (Thanks Wick-ee poedia)
Instead, the term "true believer" connotes someone who maintains a particular postion against the tide of mass irrationality. My observation is that this connotation arose following the defeat of John Hewson by Paul Keating in the Federal election in 1994. In Paul Keating's victory speech, he referred to his supporters as the 'true believers'.
By telling Kim that she is a "true believer", you maybe inadvertently and sub-consciously validating her position.
Kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4346
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:36 am

Hi, Ben,
I did understand that Peter may not have intended 'true believer' to have the meaning I chose to give it. Quite apart from the Aussie sense you mention, he could have meant it with a sneer (though I hope not) or with a smile of encouragement. :juggling: Such things are hard to discern via the plain text.
BTW, just to avoid any other misunderstandings, I'm a 'he' not a 'she'. My gender was discussed at some length :tongue: over on e-Sangha but perhaps you weren't around there at the time.
:namaste:
Kim

User avatar
Cittasanto
Posts: 6524
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:31 pm
Location: Ellan Vannin
Contact:

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby Cittasanto » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:37 am

(1) When different claims get bundled together.

the cause isn't the same as the object itself, an atheist can deny god/s exist but doesn't deny life itself exists.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby Ben » Fri Apr 16, 2010 6:41 am

Hi Kim
My apologies as I didn't realise you are a boy! However, I don't think it would have changed my perception of you or my behaviour towards you.
As for Peter - He's a nice guy.
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby PeterB » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:07 am

I dont know about that Ben...I try. :thinking:
What I find most interesting about the debate is the emotionality attached to it.
I am not thinking here about the debate on this forum only..
There is the thing-in-itself which a reasonably intelligent person can form a view about.
And there really is more than one view.( A point not concedable apparantly to those who accept the hypothesis of man made climate change.)
Then there is the degree of emotionality with which that view is defended.
I find it interesting. It has replaced Christianity as the unassailable doctrine du jour.
It has become a means of identifying "us" and "them". On both sides of the debate.

nathan
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby nathan » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:38 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4346
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:03 am


User avatar
BubbaBuddhist
Posts: 640
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:55 am
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
Contact:

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby BubbaBuddhist » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:10 pm

Peter, when you make your foil hat, be sure to construct it around a grid of copper wire, no wider than 1" mesh. This also blocks out the emissions from Project HAARP and the mind-enslaving radiation from the Overlords of Pima Centaurus.

J
Author of Redneck Buddhism: or Will You Reincarnate as Your Own Cousin?

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby PeterB » Fri Apr 16, 2010 12:22 pm

I'll bear that in mind John.

:anjali:

nathan
Posts: 692
Joined: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:11 am

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby nathan » Sat Apr 17, 2010 1:54 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4346
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:43 am


User avatar
fig tree
Posts: 178
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:25 am

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby fig tree » Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:26 am


User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby Dan74 » Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:53 am

:goodpost:

Thank you for the effort.
_/|\_

User avatar
Kim OHara
Posts: 4346
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2009 5:47 am
Location: North Queensland, Australia

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:18 am

:goodpost:
Ditto ... doubled.
I felt a bit lonely there for a while. :smile:

Kim

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: when to doubt a scientific consensus

Postby PeterB » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:06 pm

The BBC news is talking about the disruption to air traffic lasting a long time, perhaps months.
Which of course would bankrupt all European airlines.
Gaia strikes back...?


Return to “Lounge”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine