Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

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Inge
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Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby Inge » Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:27 pm

Is it possible for an interested dzogchen beginner like me to practice tögal?

Can tögal be a complete path?

In the non-restricted , there are tögal instructions where one are using hearing to listen to inner sound visions, and this seems to be the same as the method that Avalokiteshvara used to gain enlightenment according to the Chinese Shurangama sutra. Is it possible that this sutra contains tögal instructions? I remember once reading that Erik Pema Kunsang said this sutra was like one long pointing out instruction. Anyway do you think it is beneficial and non-dangerous for me to do such listening practice?

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padma norbu
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby padma norbu » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:41 am

"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron

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Fa Dao
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby Fa Dao » Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:15 am

From my limited understanding unless you are somewhat stabilized in Trekcho practice Todgal is basically a waste of time for you.
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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heart
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby heart » Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:24 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

Silent Bob
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby Silent Bob » Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:37 am

If you read the book a little more closely, Thrangu Rinpoche says on p.205, "If you want to do any of these types of practices then you should get instruction from a lama and meditate according to their instructions. If you just do it on your own without any instructions, it will not be easy and you will have many difficulties and problems". I don't see how he could have said it any more clearly.
"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"

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Sönam
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby Sönam » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:22 am

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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booker
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby booker » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:04 am


oberon_rex
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby oberon_rex » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:21 am


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Sönam
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby Sönam » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:40 am

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

oberon_rex
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby oberon_rex » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:59 am

Interesting. What are the other possibilities?

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Sönam
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby Sönam » Wed Oct 12, 2011 12:16 pm

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

oberon_rex
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby oberon_rex » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:05 pm

Yes - you are quite right.
But that is an extremely rare occurrence.
What are the other possibilities for those of us who aren't pure enough?

White Lotus
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby White Lotus » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:14 pm

so many layers to this sandwich... after all its just a sandwich.
relaxing in my own state, as its always been... i have a sandwich for breakfast every day.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

muni
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby muni » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:07 pm

Edit. Master student is misunderstood.

http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Buddhis ... 20Guru.htm
Last edited by muni on Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sönam
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby Sönam » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:37 am

I do not disagree on the advantage of the master in descovering our true nature ... I simply disagree with those that repeat automatically that same litany, "you cannot discover ..." how do they know if they simply think so?

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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padma norbu
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby padma norbu » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:54 pm

"Use what seems like poison as medicine. We can use our personal suffering as the path to compassion for all beings." Pema Chodron

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:24 pm

When we reach certain point they become the same thing of course but until we reach that point - we need guidance.

White Lotus
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby White Lotus » Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:28 pm

keep it simple. rigpa is easy.
you dont need to do or become anything.
a master can help, but he can also complicate.

keep it simple. rigpa is easy.
right now at this moment you are experiencing rigpa.
completely normal.

ego is not an issue if you see rigpa,
however it can complicate things which
are beautifully simple.

talk of non duality is for those who need
a distraction.

awareness is not supreme, just rest in reality
as it is. aware when aware, unaware when unaware.
doors, floors, walls, trees, cars, bicycles, typing at the computer...

all perfectly natural. me you. the same. me you. different.

all just natural.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.

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Sönam
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby Sönam » Thu Oct 13, 2011 5:20 pm

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Karma Dondrup Tashi
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Re: Tögal for dzogchen beginners?

Postby Karma Dondrup Tashi » Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:48 pm

True - for all I know you all may be enlightened Buddhas already.


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