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Confusion about eternally of "soul" - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Confusion about eternally of "soul"

A forum for beginners and members of other Buddhist traditions to ask questions about Theravāda (The Way of the Elders). Responses require moderator approval before they are visible.
Kenshou
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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Kenshou » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:24 pm


meindzai
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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby meindzai » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:36 pm


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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Zom » Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:39 pm


Kenshou
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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Kenshou » Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:30 pm

If that truly is his position on nibbana, then I do agree that that's weird, sounds kinda like Advaita and seems incongruent with the suttas on the whole.

Funny thing is I've never detected much of this sort of thing in the majority of Than's stuff, and I've read a whole lot of it. I'll set that weird little bit aside.

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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Nosta » Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:23 pm

So, as a conclusion, is there any form of conscience on nibbana [read: nibbana after death] or not? Any form of inteligence? For example, could it be possible for a "someone" in nibbana, a buddha, come back to life (be it as a spirit, a body, etc) in order to help others??

Other related question: if a living buddha is dying, could he really choose to reborn again?
EDIT: by the way, everybody speaks about that Thanissaro. When reading Theravada texts, i like writers like Bikkhu Boddhi. They present things on a simple, mechanical and pratical way.

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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Reductor » Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:34 am


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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Sobeh » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:01 am


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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Reductor » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:29 am


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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Reductor » Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:08 pm


Nosta
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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Nosta » Fri Apr 09, 2010 1:34 pm

Interesting. So, Nibbana is really "let go" EVERYTHING, since even compassion stops. Sometimes it seems that nibbana is like a suicide! lol

Sometimes, dont you feel some kind of fear about Nibbana?? Sometimes i feel it, i dont know to explain why or how is that fear, but i have it sometimes. Maybe because Nibbana, sometimes, is some kind of boring state lol, maybe because it speaks about the end of "i"...really, i dont know.
...
About my question related with Buddha dying and rebirth again in order to help others: i did that question because many people believe that buddhists believe that Dalai Lama is one reencarnation of Buddha Shakyamuni. And thats wrong. As far as i know, Mahayana beleive that Dalai Lama is the reencarnation of some buddhist monk/master whatever. Am i right to affirm that in Theravada there is no such thing, like sucessive reencarnations of a monk (or even a Buddha) as a way to save all beeings??


Thanks you for answers so far ;-)

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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Mawkish1983 » Fri Apr 09, 2010 4:33 pm


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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Wind » Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:55 pm


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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Reductor » Sat Apr 10, 2010 5:33 am


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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Zom » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:24 am


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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Wind » Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:23 am

Excellent post, Zom! :twothumbsup:

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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Dhammakid » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:47 am

Ah, Zom, that post is so simple and yet so brilliant. Clear and to the point. The Buddha was so razor sharp. Thanks for that.
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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Dhammakid » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:55 am

Wow, I'm just now realizing the wrong view I've held for quite a while. I've fallen for the whole "consciousness is the ground of all being, we are the universe" stuff. I too have felt some fear of Nibbana and maybe this self-view-as-universe was feeding it. This passage from the MN has helped set me straight, as well as inspiring increased faith. Thanks again for that, Zom.
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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Nosta » Sun Apr 11, 2010 6:32 pm

Hi!
Just a quick thing, since i must be fast right now lol: when i spoke on reencarnation, i just used that word in a "common way" not a "technical" one. I know that difference between reencarnation and rebirth :-)

I would like to comment a thing that dhammakid said: if there is no "i", i can suppose that the 5 aggregates that "build" myself, are just one with the universe. So, i am not "i", but i cant say that i am not either the universe. I am both the universe and the 5 aggregates, and neither them. This is not the same to say that i am the universal consciousness, or to say that there is such thing. In fact, i can conclude there there is just rupa and namo. And there us suffereing because of that. Just my humble opinion :-)

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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Zom » Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:35 pm


Kenshou
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Re: Confusion about eternally of "soul"

Postby Kenshou » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:20 pm

I think that's a valid argument Zom, however, to throw something else in, on page 132 of on Nibbana, it is mentioned that "It is perhaps also significant that both of the instances where this phrase is used by the Buddha are in passages involving the demonstration of his superiority over the brahma gods. It is thus conceivable that the phraseology derives from some spiritual or mythological principle dear to the brahmins, and which the Buddha is employing to expand the familiar meaning, or to turn it around. As we saw in Ch 2, this was a common source of the Buddha’s choice of words and metaphorical images. "

It's not exactly a secret that the Buddha changed up his methods depending on the audience. If these discourses were indeed aimed at a Brahmanic or similar audience it isn't inconceivable that in describing the goal he picked terms that wouldn't have the possibility of being misinterpreted as annihilation and turn away the target audience in this context.

And also, something I've been wondering about, is Buddhist practice in the present at all affected by whichever side of this argument is correct, if either? I'm not trying to encourage that the issue be ignored, things like this should be investigated, but since as far as I can tell the training remains the same, it isn't quite such a big deal.


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