Paṭisambhidāmagga sabhava

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5heaps
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Paṭisambhidāmagga sabhava

Postby 5heaps » Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:04 am

Jnana wrote: If you want dhammas to have sabhāva -- even though the Paṭisambhidāmagga explicitly states that dhammas are empty of sabhāva -- then that's fine by me.
whats it mean to be empty of svabhava? for example what is the emptiness of a cup?

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Virgo
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Re: Paṭisambhidāmagga sabhava

Postby Virgo » Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:18 am

5heaps wrote:
Jnana wrote: If you want dhammas to have sabhāva -- even though the Paṭisambhidāmagga explicitly states that dhammas are empty of sabhāva -- then that's fine by me.
whats it mean to be empty of svabhava? for example what is the emptiness of a cup?

In essence, sabhava means that something really does exist, even if it only comes into existence momentarily. It doesn't mean it posses a self, but that it just really does arise.

Thus, the emptiness of persons is based on this concept. Rupa, real; nama, real. But the conceptual objects of nama, not always real, mostly illusory, ie. the perception that there are beings, or whole objects aside from the rupa that forms "them", which exist at an ultimate level.

Therefore, no persons or selves, just seperate arising dharmas which we consider to for some larger whole which has a self essence, wrongly. No concept has a self essence on the ultimate level, neither does any paramattha dhamams, but the paramattha dhammas to have sabhava, ie. they arise for real.

But I can't get into this conversation, because Geoff will insult me.

Kevin

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Re: Paṭisambhidāmagga sabhava

Postby Jnana » Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:05 am

5heaps wrote:whats it mean to be empty of svabhava? for example what is the emptiness of a cup?

This subject has already been discussed and debated ad nauseum. Dharma Wheel and Dhamma Wheel both have decent search functions. There is little more that needs to be said at this point.

All the best,

Geoff

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Re: Paṭisambhidāmagga sabhava

Postby Jnana » Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:07 am

Virgo wrote:Geoff will insult me.

It's never been my intention to insult you.

All the best,

Geoff

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Virgo
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Re: Paṭisambhidāmagga sabhava

Postby Virgo » Sat Oct 01, 2011 3:33 am

Jnana wrote:
Virgo wrote:Geoff will insult me.

It's never been my intention to insult you.

All the best,

Geoff

And you never have Geoff. Others have though, purposefully, pertaining to this topic.

Kevin

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Re: Paṭisambhidāmagga sabhava

Postby Jnana » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:01 am

Virgo wrote:And you never have Geoff.

:smile:


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