YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

What is conducive to awakening? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

What is conducive to awakening?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby PeterB » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:36 pm


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:46 pm


User avatar
bodom
Posts: 5713
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 6:18 pm
Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby bodom » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:01 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:21 am
Location: France
Contact:

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Sönam » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:23 pm

Possessing was a short cut, you are right nothing is possessed by no one ...

"The primordial purity of the original basis transcends the extremes of existence and non-existence, and it is the great transcending of the objects of conception and expression. As the essence of the basis is primordially pure, it transcends the extreme of existence, etarnalism, and it is not established as the phenomena of things or characteristics. As the nature of the basis is spontaneously accomplished, it transcends the extreme of non-existence, nihilism, and it is present as the purity, the ultimate nature of emptiness clarity, as the nature of the primordial Buddha, as the state of changeless ultimate body, as non-existent either as samsara or nirvana, and as the self-arisen great intrinsic wisdom which is present from primordial time like space.

Having broken the shell of the ceaselessness of the changeless intrinsic wisdom, the primordial basis of the originally pure inner ultimate sphere, by the flow of the energy/air of primordial wisdom, the self-appearances of the intrinsic awareness flash out from the basis as the "eight spontaneously accomplished doors". When the appearances spontaneously arise from the inner clarity as the outer clarity, the appearances of their essence are self-clarity, which is the space of unobstructedness, the appearances of their nature are the natural/original glow as the five lights, and the appearances of compassion are the aspect of providing the cloudness sky-like space. This is the arising of the appearances of the basis from the basis.

When the appearances of the basis arise, phenomenal existents arise as the lights and bodies. It is called the appearances of everything as the spontaneously accomplished field. ... from their power of compassion of that field arise the door aspects of samsara, like dreams.

At the very movement of the arising of the intrinsic awareness from the basis, "the eight spontaneous appearances of the basis" arise naturally. At that moment, by not apprehending those appearances as others and by realizing them as the natural glow/self radiance with a pure mind, the movements of the intrinsic awareness cease in themselves. At the first movement, by realizing the self-essence of the self-appearances, the realization of the true meaning develops ... At the second movement, the delusions are dispelled and the perfection of primordial wisdom develops. That is the development of the basis itself as the result of enlightenment. ...

Through the aspect of not realizing the essence of "the appearances of the basis" themselves as they are, one becomes distracted into the delusions ..."

This is a teaching corresponding to my answer ... but I may understand that it would be difficult for you to accept it.
Therefore, except if there is a constructive answer, I would considere the discussion as having an end there.

Sönam
no hope ... no fear

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:37 pm


User avatar
Guy
Posts: 762
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 4:05 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Guy » Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:46 pm

Hi Sonam,

Can you please sum what you just posted in layman's terms? I don't get it...

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

User avatar
ground
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 6:01 am

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby ground » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:23 am

"Awakening" perhaps is too indefinite and therefore this term may be conducive to speculation.
Why not simply say "What is conducive to cessation of dukkha?"

Kind regards

User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:21 am
Location: France
Contact:

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Sönam » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:02 am

no hope ... no fear

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby PeterB » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:06 am

According to the kind of Mahayana view which is not shared by large numbers of those who have joined a THERAVADA forum.
Starting with the idea of " primordial purity ".
The Buddha is far far more radical.
He started with the idea of primordial ignorance.
Sonam we 21 st century Theravadins have not chosen the Theravada by an accident of birth, or in ignorance of the teachings of the Mahayana. We have chosen the Theravada after much thought and discussion and seeking because we accept that it most truly represents the actual teachings of the Buddha.

User avatar
Guy
Posts: 762
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 4:05 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Guy » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:26 am

Hi Sonam,

My understanding is that Nibbana literally means "extinguish" and is not a thing which "appears". So for something to "Nibbana" is for that thing to, in a way, "disappear". Or so it "appears" to me...

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:21 am
Location: France
Contact:

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Sönam » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:16 am

no hope ... no fear

User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:21 am
Location: France
Contact:

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Sönam » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:22 am

no hope ... no fear

User avatar
Guy
Posts: 762
Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 4:05 am
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Guy » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:24 am

Hi Sonam,

Maybe the "Nibbana" I am speaking about and the "Nirvana" you are speaking about are two different concepts with different implications.

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:53 am


User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:21 am
Location: France
Contact:

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Sönam » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:14 am

no hope ... no fear

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby PeterB » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:23 am

So with respect, why discuss it here Sonam ?
You chose of your own free will to join a Theravadin forum.
You were and are, very welcome.
But I would suggest that you find some means of finding common ground, because simply introducing Mahayana/Vajrayana doctrine into the various debates will inevitably end in disagreement.
There is a sister forum to this one called Dharma Wheel.
It exists to promote debate about Mahayana ideas.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:40 am


User avatar
Sönam
Posts: 28
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:21 am
Location: France
Contact:

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby Sönam » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:49 am

no hope ... no fear

PeterB
Posts: 3909
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 pm

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby PeterB » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:56 am

Its not quite as simple as that Sonam. I am sure that I speak for many when I say that you are most welcome here.
But concepts like "Buddha Nature" " Primordial Purity " and the like are unlikely to go unchallenged or unexamined on any Theravadin forum.
After all if we accepted those concepts as pertaining to the reality of things we would be, or would still be, practising a form of the Mahayana..

:anjali:

User avatar
acinteyyo
Posts: 1684
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:48 am
Location: Bavaria / Germany

Re: What is conducive to awakening?

Postby acinteyyo » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:12 pm

Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.


Return to “Connections to Other Paths”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine