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Is Zen Rational?
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Re: Is Zen Rational?
by PadmaVonSamba » Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:30 pm
HA!
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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth. Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth. Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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Re: Is Zen Rational?
by ajax » Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:24 pm
Astus wrote:Is being rational Zen? Is being irrational Zen? Of course not. Can Zen be rationalised or "irrationalised"? Definitely. So it is not something but can be made into anything, such is the magic of mind. Zen can be presented in any way it is needed, that's the primary approach Zen has. That is quite a rational attitude that understands dependent origination and how to assist people in seeing the nature of mind, i.e. perceiving that ideas such as rationality and irrationality depend on each other without any real basis.
No real basis. I like that.
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Re: Is Zen Rational?
by alwayson » Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:24 pm
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Re: Is Zen Rational?
by kirtu » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:48 am
ajax wrote:kirtu wrote:Zen is rational, but it is not linear and it is not bound by logic.
Kirt
Hello Kirt
Can you possibly elaborate? How can Zen be rational if it is not bound by logic or reasoning?
Zen relies upon Buddha Nature directly. Because Buddha Nature cannot be elaborated upon meaningfully using logic, Zen is beyond logic. Logic is a tool for consistent reasoning but Zen accords to the circumstance and condition. Zen's rationality is totally based on Buddha Nature. You can reason correctly in Zen, just not with a linear intellectual approach (although you can get started that way).
Kirt
"Set your heart on virtue: Virtue's outcome is delight".
Dharmapada 9:3
“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
Dharmapada 9:3
“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: Is Zen Rational?
by PadmaVonSamba » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:03 am
on one side is rational, on the other side is irrational. That's not zen.
So the answer is, no.
Sheng-ts'an's great poem, "On Beliveing In Mind" sums it up niceley:
"As long as you tarry in the dualism, How can you realize oneness?"
So the answer is, no.
Sheng-ts'an's great poem, "On Beliveing In Mind" sums it up niceley:
"As long as you tarry in the dualism, How can you realize oneness?"
Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth. Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth. Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.
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PadmaVonSamba - Posts: 1797
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Re: Is Zen Rational?
by catmoon » Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:02 pm
ajax wrote:hello catmooncatmoon wrote:I doubt the practice of sitting on cushions was derived from a process of logical analysis.
I also doubt the practice of zazen was derived from a process of logical analysis. However the question of how the practice was derived is a different question.
It was just an example of rationality in Zen. I am implying that the same line of thought can be applied broadly to Zen practice.
Sergeant Schultz knew everything there was to know.
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Re: Is Zen Rational?
by AdmiralJim » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:37 pm
to quote spock 'logic is the beginning of wisdom not the end'
I don't know where we are going but it will be nice when we get there
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