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Is Zen Rational?
Yes 56%  56%  [ 9 ]
No 44%  44%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 16
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 Post subject: Re: Is Zen Rational?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:30 pm 
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HA!

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The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Zen Rational?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 4:24 pm 
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Astus wrote:
Is being rational Zen? Is being irrational Zen? Of course not. Can Zen be rationalised or "irrationalised"? Definitely. So it is not something but can be made into anything, such is the magic of mind. Zen can be presented in any way it is needed, that's the primary approach Zen has. That is quite a rational attitude that understands dependent origination and how to assist people in seeing the nature of mind, i.e. perceiving that ideas such as rationality and irrationality depend on each other without any real basis.

No real basis. I like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Zen Rational?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 8:24 pm 
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I know Dependent Origination is rational.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%AB ... tp%C4%81da


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 Post subject: Re: Is Zen Rational?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 12:31 am 
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Zen is rationally irrational.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Zen Rational?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:48 am 
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ajax wrote:
kirtu wrote:
Zen is rational, but it is not linear and it is not bound by logic.

Kirt

Hello Kirt

Can you possibly elaborate? How can Zen be rational if it is not bound by logic or reasoning?


Zen relies upon Buddha Nature directly. Because Buddha Nature cannot be elaborated upon meaningfully using logic, Zen is beyond logic. Logic is a tool for consistent reasoning but Zen accords to the circumstance and condition. Zen's rationality is totally based on Buddha Nature. You can reason correctly in Zen, just not with a linear intellectual approach (although you can get started that way).

Kirt

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 Post subject: Re: Is Zen Rational?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:03 am 
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on one side is rational, on the other side is irrational. That's not zen.
So the answer is, no.

Sheng-ts'an's great poem, "On Beliveing In Mind" sums it up niceley:
"As long as you tarry in the dualism, How can you realize oneness?"

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Profile Picture: "The Foaming Monk"
The Chinese characters are Fo (buddha) and Ming (bright). The image is of a student of Buddhism, who, imagining himself to be a monk, and not understanding the true meaning of the words takes the sound of the words literally. Likewise, People on web forums sometime seem to be foaming at the mouth.
Original painting by P.Volker /used by permission.


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 Post subject: Re: Is Zen Rational?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:02 pm 
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ajax wrote:
hello catmoon

catmoon wrote:
I doubt the practice of sitting on cushions was derived from a process of logical analysis.

I also doubt the practice of zazen was derived from a process of logical analysis. However the question of how the practice was derived is a different question.


It was just an example of rationality in Zen. I am implying that the same line of thought can be applied broadly to Zen practice.

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 Post subject: Re: Is Zen Rational?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:37 pm 
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to quote spock 'logic is the beginning of wisdom not the end'

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