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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:02 pm 
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i pose the following as a question since it is my experience. ignorant though i am on matters of Dzogchen.

awareness sees things as emptiness, but is awareness itself emptiness. or is it the speck in the empty circle. the only thing that truly exists?

taking the empty circle to mean emptiness (energy), if one can see this emptiness, surely that which sees is not emptiness. that which sees it is awareness.

it is awarenss of your natural state that taps into energy.

best wishes, Tom.

_________________
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:31 pm 
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White Lotus wrote:
i pose the following as a question since it is my experience. ignorant though i am on matters of Dzogchen.

awareness sees things as emptiness, but is awareness itself emptiness. or is it the speck in the empty circle. the only thing that truly exists?

taking the empty circle to mean emptiness (energy), if one can see this emptiness, surely that which sees is not emptiness. that which sees it is awareness.

it is awarenss of your natural state that taps into energy.

best wishes, Tom.


Everything have always been and will always be empty. Awareness is also empty.

"Usually we say that Dzogchen, sometimes called Ati Yoga, is a Dharma tradition
but actually it is just the state of one's mind, basically.
This unity of being empty and cognizant is the state of mind of all sentient beings.
There is nothing special about that. A practitioner should encompass that with "a
core of awareness." That is the path of practice. Again, "the unity of being empty
and cognizant with a core of awareness.""

Tulku Urgyen


/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


Last edited by heart on Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:46 pm 
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Location: Waponi Woo
heart wrote:
White Lotus wrote:
i pose the following as a question since it is my experience. ignorant though i am on matters of Dzogchen.

awareness sees things as emptiness, but is awareness itself emptiness. or is it the speck in the empty circle. the only thing that truly exists?

taking the empty circle to mean emptiness (energy), if one can see this emptiness, surely that which sees is not emptiness. that which sees it is awareness.

it is awarenss of your natural state that taps into energy.

best wishes, Tom.


Everything have always been and will always be empty.

/magnus


So now go have a Pepsi!

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"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:54 am 
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gnegirl wrote:
heart wrote:

Everything have always been and will always be empty.

/magnus


So now go have a Pepsi!


Hardly at 6 in the morning, I will have a cup of tea instead. And yes, it is also empty. :smile:

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 12:54 pm 
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Tom, I don't always have time to read all your posts but I think we should not get 'wordy' with these things. It is worse than getting merely conceptual. It is good to be enthusiastic but there are a few dangers too, like mistaking things, reducing, generalizing and being caught in a feed back loop with some who declare their realizations via their stanzas and koans and such on forums and blogs. Frankly I can't remember one that has impressed me so I'd recommend it. I feel your zest is precious though and you should not stop. Instead of bringing it down to wordsmithing levels and letting others sully and rap with it for a few moments and denigrating your initial idea which might have been a good pointer, you should keep them private and contemplate on them internally and try to see the essence beyond the words. A good rule of thumb we are often told is to mainly negate ideas, though some are good stepping stones, and strip away instead of adding to concepts. I also like the impressions I get from your spirit behind your words and intentions. They feel genuine and noble and more importantly seem a rare continuous desire to contemplate things which you should appreciate, protect and nurture in private. It might also be good to let them go and flow through too, like a river. If you do I am sure there will be more ideas upstream and just round the corner with your fertile potential. It is better than sticking to them and getting bored with them in the end like a used napkin. Like everything else they are without border, ever changing and hollow, so no point in clinging to them to their imminent death. So whatever you do, don't stop. Anyway just my impressions which are probably full of mistakes as usual. All the best to you Tom.

_________________
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:43 pm 
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Username, thats a really nice thing to say... touched. thank you. gne girl, i'll have to get up with a pepsi, pep m'self up early in the morning! yes, heart, everything is empty, but awareness... i just dont know. it could be an infinite point in the primordial space? who knows, fun to speculate!

best wishes, Tom.

Username, the fullfillment of your wishes is found in your kindness to others. you will do well. my blessing upon you.

_________________
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:37 pm 
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White Lotus wrote:
Username, thats a really nice thing to say... touched. thank you. gne girl, i'll have to get up with a pepsi, pep m'self up early in the morning! yes, heart, everything is empty, but awareness... i just dont know. it could be an infinite point in the primordial space? who knows, fun to speculate!

best wishes, Tom.

Username, the fullfillment of your wishes is found in your kindness to others. you will do well. my blessing upon you.


In Mahayana Buddhism awareness is empty, that covers all the Tantras up to and including Dzogchen. You should look into what exactly what is meant with emptiness in Buddhism and this point will become clear to you.

/magnus

_________________
"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 10:37 pm 
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heart wrote:
In Mahayana Buddhism awareness is empty, that covers all the Tantras up to and including Dzogchen. You should look into what exactly what is meant with emptiness in Buddhism and this point will become clear to you.

/magnus

I guess one question is what emptiness really means, and another question would be what the difference is between awareness and 'everything else'?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 3:08 pm 
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emptiness is your natural state, it is that which is within you and the phenomena that are around you. since this normal state does not feel empty in any way some have called it the Universal Mind, others have called it, Spirit, Energy etc... emptiness is a very accurate name for it, but it doesnt feel empty. it is not anything, yet for convenience we call it emptiness. even though it is not anything, still it radiates.

everything is empty, and it is awareness that observes that fact. awareness exists within emptiness. at least its the only thing that does. the pupil within the empty circle. the dharma eye.

it is impossible for emptiness to observe itself, it is observed by awareness.

sometimes one is aware, sometimes one is unaware. this is simply ones natural state.

best wishes, Tom.

PLEASE NOTE THAT THIS POST IS SPECULATIVE AND MAY NOT BARE ANY RELATION TO FACT.

_________________
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.


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