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Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan? - Page 23 - Dhamma Wheel

Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
pt1
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby pt1 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 2:44 pm


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bodom
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby bodom » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:03 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

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tiltbillings
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 08, 2010 3:42 pm


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby Virgo » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:31 pm

The Burmese commentary is based on the //Buddhavamsa// in the Pali canon
(translated into English by I.B. Horner, //Chronicle of Buddhas//, Pali
Text Society) and the extensive commentary on it by Buddhadatta
(translated into English by I.B. Horner, //The Clarifier of the Sweet
Meaning//, PTS). These works give the details concerning the efforts to
become a Buddha made by Gotama and an account of the twenty-four Buddhas
who preceded him.

One of the most important aspects of the preparation to be a Buddha is the
accomplishment of the ten perfections. A Bodhisatta (Buddha-to-be) must
fulfill the perfections in three degrees:

1. to the degree which suffices for becoming an Arahat (fully-
enlightened) and involves the sacrifice of external possessions,

2. to the higher degree which suffices for becoming a chief disciple and
involves the sacrifice of one's limbs, and

3. the ultimate degree, leading to Buddhahood and involving the sacrifice
of one's life.

The account of the period of preparation for Buddhahood begins when the
resolution to become a Buddha is first made and confirmed by a Buddha. In
the case of Gotama, this occured when he was a hermit named Sumedha and
the prediction was given by the Buddha Dipankara (the twenty-fourth Buddha
before Gotama). It is after a Buddha confirms his resolution that a
Boddhisatta reflects on what must be done to accomplish this, and he
passes in review the ten perfections. At the time he met the Buddha
Dipankara, Sumedha had already practised the ten perfections to the degree
of becoming an Arahat and the only reason he did not become enlightened
was that he wished to become a Buddha himself.
So the accounts we have of
his practice of the perfections in texts such as the Jataka stories are
examples of the higher efforts. It may be useful to bear this in mind if
the Bodhisatta's example seems too difficult for us to emulate.

-Saya U Chit Tin,
Heddington, 19th January 1984


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tiltbillings
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:35 pm


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby Virgo » Mon Mar 08, 2010 5:39 pm

"ARAHANT

The third Yana to reach Nibbana is the Arahantship. This path is comparatively an easy one, and it is open to both men and women. Arahant is the one who has completely eradicated all the defilement including the ten fetters and the one who is worthy of offerings and reverence. As he has attained the ultimate realization, he is also capable to render the spiritual assistance to others for their liberation. Therefore the attainment of Nibbana through even this Yana cannot be regarded as selfish ideal.

To become an Arahant, one should have to fulfil the ten perfection for many series of births."


The Venn. Pandit P. Pemaratana Nayaka Thero in Dasa Parami


termite
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby termite » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:01 pm


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby Virgo » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:05 pm

The Three Types of Disciples’ Enlightenment

"There are three classes of enlightenment of a Noble Disciple: (i) an Ordinary Noble Disciple’s, (ii) a Great Disciple’s, and (iii) a Chief Disciple’s. By fulfilling the first ten perfections for one aeon and a hundred thousand world cycles, one can attain the enlightenment of a Chief Disciple. By the Chief Disciples are meant the Buddha’s two principal Noble Disciples like the Venerables Sāriputta and Moggallāna for Gotama Buddha.

By fulfilling the same perfections for a hundred thousand world cycles, one can attain the enlightenment of a Great Disciple. By the Great Disciples are meant the distinguished Noble Ones, numbering eighty for Buddha Gotama.

"

Venerable Ledi Sayādaw
Uttama Purisa Dīpanī
A Manual of the Excellent Man


Until I see any other Canonical evidence stating otherwise, it will be inferred by me that there is no explicit mention of the amount of time it takes practicing the Ten Perfection necessary to become an Arahant, but that through logic it must be inferred that it is simply a very long time, as stated above. This, in addition to the Abhidhamma and it's Commentaries showing that the development of wisdom cannot be seperated from the development of the other Perfections (see my previous quotations in this thread), I feel that there is no doubt that the Perfections must be practiced, and must be practiced for a significant amount of time, though I cannot provide a precise length of time, as per looking at Canonical material.

Kindly retract your statements that what I have said is not in accordance with Theravada.

kevin


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jcsuperstar
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby jcsuperstar » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:18 pm

maybe the language here is what is causing a problem, maybe must isnt the right word to use maybe does is.

so instead of one must spend eons which seems to cause a bit of an uproar, we can say one spends eons, which, i dont think anyone here (unless they're gonna go down the anti-rebirth route) will argue against, and i do believe there are sutta references out there to show we have wallowed in samsara for many lives, and sutta references to show that "because this is, that is" etc. so one could pretty much, if they wanted to, create a firm sutta based argument that in fact it does take a long time, however it is a bit harder to say it must take a long time. :shrug:
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby meindzai » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:59 pm


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:16 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby mikenz66 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:01 pm


meindzai
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby meindzai » Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:45 pm

Hate to get much into quibbling, but "according to Theravada" to me does sound like a consensus. As does "I don't think any serious Buddhist sect ever posited otherwise."

-M

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retrofuturist
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:17 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 08, 2010 10:53 pm


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby Annapurna » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:09 pm

Last edited by Annapurna on Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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tiltbillings
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:10 pm


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby BlackBird » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:50 pm

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby mikenz66 » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:18 am


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby retrofuturist » Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:56 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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