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Dogs / Books / Training - Dhamma Wheel

Dogs / Books / Training

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
Stuart
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Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Stuart » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:18 pm

Hi All :anjali:

A couple of years ago I got a Border Collie. Her name is Kaya - she is the black and white thing attached to my nose in my avatar. The last time I had a dog was in the 80's and I could not even spell Buddhist in those days. My training techniques were all really rather forceful. Looking for training techniques for Kaya that would be in line with my spiritual path has proven difficult as many books and training techniques seem to advocate the same rather forceful style of my youth.

Has anyone got any links or book recommendations for training techniques that they have found useful. I have found one book which has had a very positive effect on my relationship with Kaya and I would like to recommend it. It is called 'If A Dog's Prayers Were Answered ... Bones Would Rain From The Sky' - by Suzanne Clothier

Stuart
xxx

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Fede
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Fede » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:32 pm

I am a dog behaviourist and psychologist.
Ask me whatever you want, I'll help all I can.

In a very Buddhist way.
Really, what other way could there be?
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


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Stuart
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Stuart » Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:53 pm


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Fede
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Fede » Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:45 pm

No, the link no longer works. You're right.
I have removed it, and the reason is that my annual subscription expired and I haven't renewed it, because in spite of assurances from the provider about it being registered in the Google search engine, it never was, and I never got one hit the whole year, save from 12 spammers.....! :jumping:

I'm currently working with a friend to try to set up a new one, but I don't know when I'll be able to get that done.
Life is....... hectic, at the mo'....

But yes, I really am a dog behaviourist/psychologist, currently working in association with a canine behaviour centre to establish my accreditation.

Excessive licking is an obsessive-compulsive disorder, and will, if unchecked, get worse.
it's a sign of stress, and could be something to do with her being in BD'sH, or an experience during or prior to that....
Her whimpering is also a sign of some distress, although her stopping, is not a sign that the distress has gone away....
How old is she?
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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bodom
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby bodom » Sun Mar 07, 2010 10:50 pm

To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/

Stuart
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Stuart » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:44 am

Fede :anjali:

:oops: - I didn't mean to suggest that I didn't believe you, I just couldn't believe my good fortune to be talking to a Dhamma Practitioner who also happens to be a Dog Behaviourist :) ....

I've never really thought of her as a particularly stressed dog, but her licking tendencies are less than when I first got her. She doesn't chew nearly as much as other dogs that I have had - I've always had Labradors in the past and they have all been great chewers. Is it true that chewing releases endorphins into their brain? She has a few compressed hide bones around the house that she hardly ever touches - except when her arch nemesis Molly (the Collie/Labrador cross) is in the house or when there are 4 or more adults chatting together - there is usually just me and her in the house. She tends to use her tongue a lot for exploring ... for example - she will spend hours getting dry food out of a kong by sticking her tongue into the kong rather than rolling the kong over and letting the food drop out - which she knows how to do.

Her whimpering seems to be a way to get me to start moving again. It's funny, when I stop and sit on a park bench, she will just sit down beside me (no whimpering), but if I stop and talk to someone else, she's like a little kid pulling my sleeve going 'can we go, can we go' with the whimpering - I must admit that sometimes I give in :embarassed: - so it might well be learned behaviour.

She is about 6 years old - but that is a guess by the vets. I got her nearly 2 years ago. I know nothing of her past.

She is a great teacher as she never gets into trouble with other dogs. She always lets them have what they want. For example, she will never fight for a ball - if another dog comes near her to take the ball, she gives it up readily - even her prize football.

I've just got a book on TTouch as she really enjoys the random massages that I give her. Have you any experience with TTouch? What do you think of it?

Stuart
xxx

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Fede
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Fede » Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:30 pm

"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

Stuart
Posts: 28
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Stuart » Tue Mar 09, 2010 3:29 pm


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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Fede » Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:04 pm

Everyone has their own methods.
However, I watch his programmes and sometimes, am of the opinion that even when he feels, or states that a dog is in a 'passive submissive' state, I see a dog that is still somewhat stressed and unsure of what is going on.
This is indicated by a wide gaping mouth and panting.
All very well if the dog has been running around like a merry lunatic, or in hot weather, but a dog which has not been running or indulging in strenuous exercise, and is indoors, or in cool weather, and is panting rapidly and has a dripping or salivating tongue, is demonstrating a sure sign of a stressful mind-frame.

Cesar Millan has an outdoor Buddhist 'temple' room, and it would seem that he is a devotee of the practice.
But prong collars, and electrical gadgets - to my mind - merely teach the dog thorough Pain and Aversion.
This is not the way I would be happy to operate.
My advice to anyone wishing to use such advice, can be summed up in nine words:
"YOU put it on - now, give me the controls."

As one of my teachers pointed out - "A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinion, still....."
I work with the dog, and help it to see that, if I perform certain actions, it's perfectly ok for him/her to co-operate with me, and give me seniority, because it's far more comfortable to do that.
The dog realises that if I take charge, I'm better equipped to do so, because I understand the world we're in, better than the dog does. So the dog willingly relinquishes the role of sometime leader, because it's not a role it feels comfortable adopting.

When an owner gives the dog mixed signals, the dog will give mixed responses.
What other choice does it have.....?
This is why I very often get owners saying -
"Sometimes he'll do this...." or "Sometimes, he'll act like that...."
It's the 'sometimes' that is a dead give-away......

But you know what?
The dogs 'get it', just like *that*. :quote: (fingers clicking).
It's the owners who take ages.
Because it's the owners who have to change their mind-set.
The dog, is a dog, is a dog.
It can't be anything else.
It's the human who has to stop thinking like a human -and expecting the dog to do likewise - and start thinking like a dog.
But once the human 'gets it' too.... well, it's a marriage made in heaven.......! ;) :twothumbsup:

You want me to come visit, one day?
I only live in St Albans......
It'd be cool to meet up!
I'm offering, ok?
No strings....... :smile:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

Stuart
Posts: 28
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Location: London, UK.

Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Stuart » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:38 pm


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Fede
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Fede » Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:33 pm

(Christian, eh...? Well, ok then..... :thinking: )

Ok, listen for the gringo accent here....
Cesar states it's "Exercise, discipline, affection".....

I say it's stop the poor bloody animal from being bored witless.
Dogs don't need miles and miles and miles of walking every day.
It's fruitless exercise, and as far as they're concerned, somewhat pointless, if nothing's achieved except being knackered....
It doesn't necessarily do them a lot of good. In fact, occasionally, missing a walk, does no harm at all.... as does missing a meal.

Dogs love activity. And as you clearly state in your post that you work her, I think you've got it pretty taped.....
She's a working dog, and anything that challenges her work ethic, and makes her think on her toes, is right on the button.
She sounds like an independent free-thinking girl, but she defers to you when things are to big for her to handle (I don't mean size-wise....)
You've got a real corker there.
And it sounds as if she's fallen on her lucky paws having someone who sees her in the light you do.

Thanks for the PM. :)

:namaste:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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Pax
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Pax » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:38 pm

I'm enjoying this thread so much!

It's been five years since I lost my beloved Border Collies, I wish I knew then what I do now about training them. They loved to please and just be with us, maybe when my SO and I retire we'll have more...when we can spend more time with them.

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Fede
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Fede » Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:52 pm

Thank you Pax, that's nice of you!
I, currently (bit of a paradox here) don't have my own dog.
I know that's a bit of a weird thing, but first and foremost, we currently rent the apartment we live in, and that means that this particular landlord won't permit it.
Secondly, I have a full-time job, and also work a couple of evenings.... my partner is also involved in full-time activities, so it simply wouldn't be fair to own a dog.
But both he and I are eager for the time when we can own a dog or two.
This is no obstacle for me.
I've been an owner of dogs for the past 30 years, so I do have extensive dog-owning experience....
I'm going for my Canine Psychology Accreditation... then at least I'll have the papers to "prove" that I can do.... what I already do! :twothumbsup:
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

Stuart
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 7:24 pm
Location: London, UK.

Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Stuart » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:45 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Mar 17, 2010 10:48 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Fede
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Fede » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:31 am

Well thank you Retro! I will definitely look into that!

*Logging off and going to FB!!*
"Samsara: The human condition's heartbreaking inability to sustain contentment." Elizabeth Gilbert, 'Eat, Pray, Love'.

Simplify: 17 into 1 WILL go: Mindfulness!

Quieta movere magna merces videbatur. (Sallust, c.86-c.35 BC)
Translation: Just to stir things up seemed a good reward in itself. ;)

I am sooooo happy - How on earth could I be otherwise?! :D


http://www.armchairadvice.co.uk/relationships/forum/

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Pax
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Re: Dogs / Books / Training

Postby Pax » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:03 am



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