"Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Sönam » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:20 am

In The Quintessence of Nectar, in the conclusion, I noticed, "Those with sharp capacities, who can practice the supreme emptiness mudra and so on, should follow the conduct of the bhusuka (the one who does nothing but eat and sleep) and increase results through the mahamudra"

And of course I made the parallel with Dzogchen (Mangagdé) ...

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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Kai » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:24 pm

I didn't say it was of lesser quality, I said it was not superior to the included texts. And how can you be sure others would disagree if you haven't read it?


Nice playing with words.........And would you know that I never read it? :thinking:

But whatever, you don't have to answer me.

conebeckham wrote:
The authors from Karma Kagyu, should consult the respective authorities from Drikung, Drukpa and so on for the insertion of their teachings, before coming out with a book that claims to represent all Mahamudra teachings of the Kagyu lineages which is obviously not the case.......


The book includes important texts that originated with the Drikung, Drukpa and Tsalpa schools, as well as the Karma Kagyu. It may not have those texts that you feel are most important, from those traditions, but the decision was given to Thrangu Rinpoche, and not to you. It seems to me that the bulk of this book focuses on the Dakpo Kagyu core--that is, Mahamudra as a sufficent and stand-alone path, the "Path of Liberation," as well as the Six Yogas or "Path of Means." Many of these texts were translated for the first time, in this volume. There are other very important Mahamudra texts which are not included--but which have been previously translated--the FiveFold Mahamudra of the Drikung being one such text, and works of Dakpo Tashi Namgyal and the 9th Karmapa, for example.

I think all the texts included here are of benefit for any practitioner of any lineage descending from Marpa and Gampopa.


Thanks for the clarification but you missed the point, I'm very fine with the book. However, I do know a number of people who have problems with the highlighted portions above. They are basically upset with single selection of personnel who make the recommendations, had the author bothered to consult a panel of Rinpoches from other lineages before coming out with the title, this small little issue would have been avoided.

I really appreciate texts that are being translated for the first time.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby conebeckham » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:38 pm

HH The Dalai Lama appointed His Eminence Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche as the "selector" for the texts to be included, so I suppose that if you, or anyone else, has issues with texts you feel are "core teachings" that were not included, you could take it up with HH The Dalai Lama--perhaps those who take issue could petition HH The Dalai Lama to add a volume to the series, called "Additional Core Texts of Mahamudra" or some such.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Kai » Thu Sep 08, 2011 3:06 pm

conebeckham wrote:HH The Dalai Lama appointed His Eminence Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche as the "selector" for the texts to be included, so I suppose that if you, or anyone else, has issues with texts you feel are "core teachings" that were not included, you could take it up with HH The Dalai Lama--perhaps those who take issue could petition HH The Dalai Lama to add a volume to the series, called "Additional Core Texts of Mahamudra" or some such.


I don't think you understand my point. I have close to zero issues to the book but I understand those who have. For example, The Single Viewpoint of the Drikung Kagyu is a great read and share interesting stuffs like "Having Cittamantra view can lead one to the seven Bhumis" and "Causal vehicles contains paths that can lead one to enlightenment in a single lifetime as opposed to the standard three incalculable eons" but it generally functions more like the "point of controversy" abhidhamma book of the Theravada in which it attempts to refute the views of other schools. (I know Sakya Pandita wrote a counter to that, will love to see its translation) However, the book sheds little light on its main practice and how it should be carried out.

From my understanding of some Kagyu people, adding Dalai Lama to the equations doesn't really help in the situation and in some cases, it will be confrontational and even make things worse.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby conebeckham » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:03 pm

Kai, I understand what you're saying, but I think you (or perhaps those whose opinions you're concerned about) misunderstand the context and "mission" of the Tibetan Classics series, of which this volume is a part.

Fortunately for us, this is not the only book regarding Mahamudra which has been, or will ever be, published in English, you know?

In fact, there are texts relating to Mahamudra that are going to be included in later volumes, from the Bodong and Geluk lineages, for example.

Frankly speaking, this series of books leans distinctly toward the Sarma traditions, in general, and toward the Gelukpa view, in particular. However, there is a great deal of material from other traditions, and even from those which may traditionally be said to be "antithetical" toward Gelukpa view, which will be included in the series. I think it's fair to say that all historical positions and traditions will at least get an "airing" in this series, though of course the series will not include every "Tri," doxology, sadhana, LamRim, sastra, etc., etc.

There are texts relating to Mahamudra practice which are more personally relevant to me than those included in this volume. But I have those texts, they are available to me, some in multiple translations.

For example, say that one is a practitioner of Chakrasamvara in the Drikung Kagyu Tradition. If one looks at the prospectus for the remaining volumes, one will see that there will indeed be a Chakrasamvara sadhana translated, along with sadhanas of Guhyasamaja, etc. However, that particular Chakrasamvara sadhana is not the one which is practiced in the Drikung lineage. So, tell me, should we be upset because a book called "Sadhanas: Vajrayana Buddhist Meditation Manuals" does not contain our own personal practice?
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby kirtu » Fri Sep 09, 2011 4:09 pm

adinatha wrote:The book is not about preliminaries. It is about Mahamudra proper, very high teachings on the view, translations on Six Yogas of Naropa, Gongchig, etc. Other translations of Six Yogas of Naropa are out of print; so this is an important text. Also the other translations of Gongchig are not that good; so this is important for that reason too.


There is a recently translated Gongchig in German that is supposed to be good.

Sonam - have you read it? Is this correct?

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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Sönam » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:48 pm

kirtu wrote:
adinatha wrote:The book is not about preliminaries. It is about Mahamudra proper, very high teachings on the view, translations on Six Yogas of Naropa, Gongchig, etc. Other translations of Six Yogas of Naropa are out of print; so this is an important text. Also the other translations of Gongchig are not that good; so this is important for that reason too.


There is a recently translated Gongchig in German that is supposed to be good.

Sonam - have you read it? Is this correct?

Kirt


Did'nt read it ... hardly read spiritual texts in German

but it looks like the german version is made from the english version ...

ImageImage

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -
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