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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 10:37 pm 
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They probably mean generation and completion. Accomplishment is usually reserved by lotsawas for tantric accomplishment after finishing a practice and sometimes implying it's signs for practices which varies. Quoting exact phrases will help if they meant else. The lotus Padmasmbhava was found on is described as red or pink often but sometimes correctly as it was which is very white with hints and pale shades of red coming through. His skin and face were the same and unusual, very white with rosy cheeks. His current immortal rainbow body is said to look the same.

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:26 pm 
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sangyey wrote:
That's one of the books I picked up from amazon. I look forward to reading it.

I was reading White Lotus and WOMPT and they were talking about approach and accomplishment practices. I am wondering what these generally mean. Is it something that you could regard as being a practice like approaching single pointed meditation and perhaps accomplishing it or something like that? Is this a terminology used to describe Nyingma practices?

http://www.rangjung.com/gl/Four_aspects_of_approach_and_accomplishment.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:35 am 
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I just googled too:
http://rywiki.tsadra.org/index.php/Four ... mplishment
I read the first 2 unrestricted volumes of below several years ago, can't remember and gave the books away but it says explained on page 194 of volume 2:
http://www.rangjung.com/books/light_of_ ... -index.htm

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:57 am 
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username wrote:
I read the first 2 unrestricted volumes of below several years ago, can't remember and gave the books away but it says explained on page 194 of volume 2:
http://www.rangjung.com/books/light_of_ ... -index.htm

I actually remembered it from The Precious Vase, but there it's explained mostly from Dzogchen POV, so I had to google it for more explanation. :D
Is the above a good book?

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Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:16 am 
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I came across it in White Lotus where it explains as the outer meaning of the 7 line prayer that you visualize Guru Rinpoche and retinue ( approach phase) lines 1-5, make supplication to achieve 3 vajras (close approach) line 6, dissolve Guru Rinpoche into yourself ( accomplishment) line 7, and experience Dharmakaya expanse ( great accomplishment) mantra.


Last edited by sangyey on Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:28 am 
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Pero wrote:
username wrote:
I read the first 2 unrestricted volumes of below several years ago, can't remember and gave the books away but it says explained on page 194 of volume 2:
http://www.rangjung.com/books/light_of_ ... -index.htm

I actually remembered it from The Precious Vase, but there it's explained mostly from Dzogchen POV, so I had to google it for more explanation. :D
Is the above a good book?


Brilliant, like dzogchrn POV lamrim. The old guy wasn't a crazy old tramp after all. Magnus has probably read the restricted 3rd and 4th volumes too and attended teachings on them and can say more. Can't remember precious vase much either, but good recommendation as far as what he is looking for as it is shorter, numerated and very structured like lamrim. Ngagchung commentary on WMPT is relevant and the best book on empowerments is what Magnus recently recommended by Tsele Natsok. Get Light of Wisdom, 2nd one at least, I wished I had scanned that one though takes time, but never have time to even reread.

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:39 am 
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sangyey wrote:
I came across it in White Lotus where it explains as the outer meaning of the 7 line prayer that you visualize Guru Rinpoche and retinue ( approach phase) lines 1-5, make supplication to achieive 3 kayas (close approach) line 6, dissolve Guru Rinpoche into yourself ( accomplishment) line 7, and experience Dharmakaya expanse ( great accomplishment) mantra.


It is what Pero linked but in a way it is generation/completion too. In anu/atiyoga with the deity's mantra visualization we have Thro-Du too. For empowerments the LOW2 & Tsele Natsok's empowerment both by rangjung publishings are best.

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:41 am 
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username wrote:
Pero wrote:
username wrote:
I read the first 2 unrestricted volumes of below several years ago, can't remember and gave the books away but it says explained on page 194 of volume 2:
http://www.rangjung.com/books/light_of_ ... -index.htm

I actually remembered it from The Precious Vase, but there it's explained mostly from Dzogchen POV, so I had to google it for more explanation. :D
Is the above a good book?


Brilliant, like dzogchrn POV lamrim. The old guy wasn't a crazy old tramp after all. Magnus has probably read the restricted 3rd and 4th volumes too and attended teachings on them and can say more. Can't remember precious vase much either, but good recommendation as far as what he is looking for as it is shorter, numerated and very structured like lamrim. Ngagchung commentary on WMPT is relevant and the best book on empowerments is what Magnus recently recommended by Tsele Natsok. Get Light of Wisdom, 2nd one at least, I wished I had scanned that one though takes time, but never have time to even reread.


Volume three was never published, it is on the second and third empowerment practices. Volume four is on Ati; Semde, Longde and Menagkde. There is supposed to be a volume 5, that isn't published, that is about fruition.

/magnus

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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:56 am 
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sangyey wrote:
That's one of the books I picked up from amazon. I look forward to reading it.

I was reading White Lotus and WOMPT and they were talking about approach and accomplishment practices. I am wondering what these generally mean. Is it something that you could regard as being a practice like approaching single pointed meditation and perhaps accomplishing it or something like that? Is this a terminology used to describe Nyingma practices?

I also wanted to ask what color lotus Guru Rinpoche is usually depicted or visualized seated on? Is it a red lotus?


Approach and accomplishment are part of the development practice in the Nyingma tradition. The best book on this is "Deity, Mantra and Wisdom" http://www.wisdom-books.com/ProductDetail.asp?PID=16612 in particular the text by Geshe Mahapandita that is included in that volume.

/magnus

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"To reject practice by saying, 'it is conceptual!' is the path of fools. A tendency of the inexperienced and something to be avoided."
- Longchenpa


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:18 am 
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How about Abhidharma study/texts/books? Does anyone have any recommendations for Abhidharma study within the Nyingma Lineage?


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:55 am 
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sangyey wrote:
How about Abhidharma study/texts/books? Does anyone have any recommendations for Abhidharma study within the Nyingma Lineage?


Yes, you can take my abhidharma course online here:

http://rsl-ne.com/abhidharma1.html

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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:18 am 
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The opportunities for study are countless and there will be no end. After having studied this you may want to study that and then that and then this ... Having studied many Nyingma tenets and views at some point you may be able to wholeheartedly say "I am Nyingma" but really ... what's the use of this attainment? It is just another self identification. Self always wants a home.


Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:43 pm 
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Thank you Namdrol. The course isn't something I would be interested in right now but perhaps in the future. I just wanted to ask about Abhidharma study within the Nyingma Lineage because it was relevant to the topic of the thread and perhaps in the future if anyone was interested or I decide that I want to do some study on it that there might be resources available on the thread.


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:51 pm 
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sangyey wrote:
Thank you Namdrol. The course isn't something I would be interested in right now but perhaps in the future. I just wanted to ask about Abhidharma study within the Nyingma Lineage because it was relevant to the topic of the thread and perhaps in the future if anyone was interested or I decide that I want to do some study on it that there might be resources available on the thread.

Most teachers don't approach it because it is very complex and complicated material, though very beneficial. Namdrol is one of the only ones, if not the only one to really teach this materially thoroughly in the west. Also, it isn't really standard material for most Nyingmapas. But who knows.. you might find some Nyingma sanghas that study it as well.

Kevin

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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:20 pm 
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Is there a root text that Words Of My Perfect Teacher is based off of?


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 9:53 pm 
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sangyey wrote:
Is there a root text that Words Of My Perfect Teacher is based off of?


WOMPT is Paltrul Rinpoche's recollection of his guru's oral instructions on the Longchen Nyingthig ngondro. So I imagine his guru would have based his own oral teachings on the lineage commentaries and pith instructions related to this ngondro practice, as well as his own realization.


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:06 pm 
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sangyey wrote:
Do Nyingmapa's generally consider themselves either Suatantrika- Svatantrika Madhyamaka or Yogachara-Svatantrika Madhyamaka?


Mipham wrote a great book on Yogachara-Svatantrika Madhyamaka (I forgot the title) and it acts as the philosophical framework behind anuttarayoga and Mahayoga practices. Its also a much easier book to understand since it adapts a step by step gradual process of guiding the student from ground level to the true nature of all phenomenon at the conclusion of the book. It differs from the standard Madhyamaka approach of refuting every reference points possible and then left readers confused, dry and empty........

The book will make you appreciate more on the reasoning behind the daily tantric practice of generation and completion stage.

Quote:
I came across it in White Lotus where it explains as the outer meaning of the 7 line prayer that you visualize Guru Rinpoche and retinue ( approach phase) lines 1-5, make supplication to achieve 3 vajras (close approach) line 6, dissolve Guru Rinpoche into yourself ( accomplishment) line 7, and experience Dharmakaya expanse ( great accomplishment) mantra.


White Lotus is a very, very good book and it contains several profound set of hidden meanings and practice. Basically, its divided into outer, inner, secret and innermost levels of explanations. Outer and inner teachings and transmission are given in many Nyingma centers. Secret ones are given after the students have done a specific set of practices like Ngondro as it involves completion stages and stuffs like tummo, etc. As for innermost secret teachings, I have not heard about it yet but it contains valuable information about Dzogchen practices. Again White Lotus is written by Mipham, it was written when his famous attendant requested Rinpoche to write about a simple daily practice that could lead him out of Samara. So Mipham combined famous short seven line prayer and His Dzogchen knowledge into one profound set of teachings and practice.

Just want to let you know more about the treasure that you hold in your hands.... :namaste:


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:07 pm 
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Thank you. The reason that I ask is because I was reading the stanzas from Jigme Lingpa's Treasury of Precious Qualities and WOPT is presented in very much the same way.


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:28 am 
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Mipham
http://www.rangjung.com/books/gateway_t ... edge_1.htm
Vasu & Asanga
http://www.amazon.com/Abhidharmakosabha ... 895819139/
http://www.amazon.com/Abhidharmasamucca ... 895819414/
Do N's course when you can.

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Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes


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 Post subject: Re: Studying Nyingma
PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:32 am 
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Namdrol wrote:
sangyey wrote:
How about Abhidharma study/texts/books? Does anyone have any recommendations for Abhidharma study within the Nyingma Lineage?


Yes, you can take my abhidharma course online here:

http://rsl-ne.com/abhidharma1.html

I took this course earlier this year and very highly recommend it.


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