Vietnamese Pure Land compared to Jodo Shinshu?

[Shutoku]

This might be a bit of a long shot, but I thought I'd try anyway.

I have been attending a Jodo Shinshu Temple in Canada for a dozen years now.
I may be moving to another town in the near future and the nearest Temple to where I would be living is a Vietnamese Pure Land Temple. They don't have a website, so it is tough to get much information short of calling them up or visiting, which ultimately is what I would have to do, but I wondered if anyone has any experience or knowledge they could share.

I just wondered if there is anyone on this board who is familiar with the differences, primarily in terms of Temple services, liturgy and ritual, more so than philosophical differences.

[LastLegend]

This might be a bit of a long shot, but I thought I'd try anyway.

I have been attending a Jodo Shinshu Temple in Canada for a dozen years now.
I may be moving to another town in the near future and the nearest Temple to where I would be living is a Vietnamese Pure Land Temple. They don't have a website, so it is tough to get much information short of calling them up or visiting, which ultimately is what I would have to do, but I wondered if anyone has any experience or knowledge they could share.

I just wondered if there is anyone on this board who is familiar with the differences, primarily in terms of Temple services, liturgy and ritual, more so than philosophical differences.

Pure Land Temple? Hehehe most Vietnamese monks nowadays practice Pure Land. I have not been to a Vietnamese Pure Land Temple. So I can't tell you what they do there. I think in a Vietnamese Temple, you chant and recite texts then eat lunch for free because people bring vegetarian food there, or cook there. Good Vietnamese food and Vietnamese people are nice and friendly.

[gerald_ford]

My experiences with Vietnamese Buddhism are limited, but in general East Asian Buddhism tends to approach the Pure Land the same way. The only exception is in Japan where sects exclusively devoted to the Pure Land and Amitabha emerged. However, a lot of other sects in Japan still practice the Pure Land path as part of a larger framework. That's who Vietnamese Pure Land Buddhism will look when you encounter it. If memory serves, priests in Vietnamese Buddhism are still ordained Bhikkhus, while the ones in Japanese Buddhism are more lay priests typically.

Fundamentally, they all focus on the same teachings, and all recite the name of Amitabha Buddha, so it won't be anything unfamiliar. In Vietnamese the recitation of Amitabha's name is Nam mô A di đà Phật, which in a Northern-pronunciation (what I studied) sounds like Nam mo a zee da fuht.

Hope that helps.

[Shutoku]

Yes, I know that Japan is sort of unique in PL being a separate sect, and having non-celibate clergy.
Obviously in a Vietnamese Temple they won't be chanting Shonshinge, or any of the liturgy Rennyo established.

Are they however likely to chant the poetic portions of the Larger sutra such as Sanbutsuge or Juseige? (albeit of course not in Sino-Japanese) or is there more of an emphasis on the Amida Sutra.
I seem to have found some indications of a walking meditation while chanting the Nembutsu.
As I said, I wonder more about the liturgical and ritual differences than philosophy or language.

Anyway, I imagine that if I relocate I'll just phone or check it out. There are also two Jodo Shinshu Temples not unreasonably far away, and I think I am pretty deeply Shinshu, so most likely I would just go to one of them anyway. However it is always good to try new things.

Thanks for the responses.

[kirtu]

Vietnamese Pure Land is like Chinese Pure Land. There won't be much of an emphasis on doctrine per se. Most of the chanting will be in Sanskrit (probably). Also there is no notion of Shinran's (or was it Honen's) Self-Power/Other-Power view.

However I've only been to one Vietnamese place so please let us know how it goes.

Kirt

[Astus]

Also there is no notion of Shinran's (or was it Honen's) Self-Power/Other-Power view.Kirt

Self- and other-power were conceived by Shandao, so it's present in other Pure Land schools.

[Andreas Ludwig]

What he meant is - I suppose - that in these PL schools Shinrans unique view of absolute other power is not present.

[Shutoku]

Which is a big part of why I am Jodo Shinshu. So the more I think of it the more I am certain I'll just travel a bit further and stick with Shinshu.
I will say also the only book of Thich Nhat Hanh's that I really did not like at all was "finding our true home", because of his very much self-power approach to the Amida sutra.
I suspect in terms of Temples and sect, I have already "found my true home"

[kirtu]

Also there is no notion of Shinran's (or was it Honen's) Self-Power/Other-Power view.Kirt

Self- and other-power were conceived by Shandao, so it's present in other Pure Land schools.

That's interesting, I didn't know that. As Andreas noted I was specifically referring to Shinran's view of absolute other power.

Kirt

[Huifeng]

Probably pretty much the same as what you'll find in Chinese Pureland practice.
I know a lot of Vietnamese who happily go to Chinese temples and fit in really well.
For one, not really a Pureland "school" per se, as it is just one method in the whole big Dharma picture.
They'll probably be chanting the Chinese scriptures (not in Sanskrit at all!), with emphasis on the "Amitabha Sutra" 佛說阿彌陀經,
but in Vietnamese, not in Chinese.
As above, they probably will not have a huge emphasis on the "(absolute) other power" and "vows" of Amitabha,
but will say that one has to make effort themselves to be reborn there.

I'll see if I can ask a couple of the Vietnamese bhiksus and bhiksunis here at FGU for any more details.

~~ Huifeng

[Dodatsu]

Also there is no notion of Shinran's (or was it Honen's) Self-Power/Other-Power view.Kirt

Self- and other-power were conceived by Shandao, so it's present in other Pure Land schools.

Actually self and other power were conceived by Tanluan (Donran), and inherited by Daozuo (Doshaku) and Shandao (Zendo).

[Astus]

Actually self and other power were conceived by Tanluan (Donran), and inherited by Daozuo (Doshaku) and Shandao (Zendo).

Thanks.

[rory]

Rev. Dodatsu:
wonderful to see you here! It's like the old e-sangha for sure now
gassho
Rory

[sinweiy]

i say there's a rebirth

Rev. Dodatsu:
wonderful to see you here! It's like the old e-sangha for sure now
gassho
Rory

more like a new born. it sort of illustrate what rebirth is about.

Rebirth in Buddhism is the doctrine that the evolving consciousness (Pali: samvattanika-viññana)[1][2] or stream of consciousness (Pali: viññana-sotam,[3] Sanskrit: vijñāna-srotām, vijñāna-santāna, or citta-santāna) upon death (or "the dissolution of the aggregates" (P. khandhas, S. skandhas)), becomes one of the contributing causes for the arising of a new aggregation. The consciousness in the new person is neither identical nor entirely different from that in the deceased but the two form a causal continuum or stream.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rebirth_(Buddhist)


/\

[rory]

Hehe great illustration of rebirth Sinweiy