"Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Sönam » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:21 pm

Being not english (as you may know :tongue: ), can you help to decode the following ...
In The Quintessence of Nectar, page 343, within "3. Increasing the benefit of that attainment", into "a. Increasing the heat", it is said : In this "binding clasp of the knees," your legs form two triangles of "opposing hearths" ... what that "opposing hearths" means?

Thank you for helping
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby conebeckham » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:43 pm

I think this would be a question you can only get answered by getting the transmission from a qualified Lama.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Malcolm » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:47 pm

Sönam wrote:Being not english (as you may know :tongue: ), can you help to decode the following ...
In The Quintessence of Nectar, page 343, within "3. Increasing the benefit of that attainment", into "a. Increasing the heat", it is said : In this "binding clasp of the knees," your legs form two triangles of "opposing hearths" ... what that "opposing hearths" means?

Thank you for helping
Sönam



It is sort of weird translation -- it just means that you sit with your knees up usually held with your hands or with a belt. This posture is often called "stove posture".
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Sönam » Wed Aug 24, 2011 3:59 pm

conebeckham wrote:I think this would be a question you can only get answered by getting the transmission from a qualified Lama.


And I did receive an answer from a qualified loppon ...

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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby conebeckham » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:06 pm

Yes, you did!! :smile:
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Sönam » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:48 am

I have another one.
But to be clear, I'm not asking to complete "secret" informations written by Shamarpa Chökyi Wangchuck, but simply to help me to understand a specific english expression ... just because english is not my usual language.
Maybe Cone can answer to my question this time :rolling:
In the Quintessence of Nectar (Core Teachings of the Kagyu Shcool page 352), in the second yoga, practice 6, it is said to those which, after practicing, have no experiences, to enhance the following practices ... and after the black retreat it is spoken of "the lac liquid" ... what means lac in this case.

thank you for your help.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Kai » Mon Sep 05, 2011 3:28 pm

This book is great, no doubt but its a far cry from being the "holy grail or bible" of all Kagyu Mahamudra, anyone who read it, will know that distinctive paths like Fivefold Mahamudra from Drikung Kagyu, the teachings from other Kagyu lineages like Drukpa Kagyu, etc, are disturbingly missing........

In the support of pure visions, I hope this is not a low attempt by some authorities to put Karma Kagyu above the rest so as to pave a future path for them to unify the rest politically and hopefully, ideologically. It will be a very sad day indeed if that happens.

Back to the book, I love the translated Chapter known as Bright Torch very well, it share certain terminologies with Lamdre of the Sakya school as stated in the Taking Result as the Path book. Alaya being the neutral ground of both Samara and Nirvana while Buddha nature, the clarity aspect of Alaya, hold the potential for sentinel beings to reach Nirvana while the alaya consciousness, dull aspect of Alaya, traps all beings within the grasp of Samara. This concept of Alaya prove the ideology connection between Karma Kagyu and Sakya school, my guess is that both school derived their teachings from Hevajra tantra and then build on it.

I haven't finished the book but so far, its been promising but the only setback is what I mentioned in the beginning. You are Karma Kagyu follower or disciples of Ganges Mahamudra, this book is definitely a must have but for those of you who are not, this book could only serve as a strong support to the core teachings of your respective schools.

Hope I'm been clear......
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Jinzang » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:02 pm

In the support of pure visions, I hope this is not a low attempt by some authorities to put Karma Kagyu above the rest so as to pave a future path for them to unify the rest politically and hopefully, ideologically. It will be a very sad day indeed if that happens.


Which texts were left out that you thought should be included?
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Kai » Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:12 pm

Jinzang wrote:
In the support of pure visions, I hope this is not a low attempt by some authorities to put Karma Kagyu above the rest so as to pave a future path for them to unify the rest politically and hopefully, ideologically. It will be a very sad day indeed if that happens.


Which texts were left out that you thought should be included?


I'm no authority on that.

The authors from Karma Kagyu, should consult the respective authorities from Drikung, Drukpa and so on for the insertion of their teachings, before coming out with a book that claims to represent all Mahamudra teachings of the Kagyu lineages which is obviously not the case.......
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Astus » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:04 pm

It is explicitly in the book that the texts were selected based on the recommendation of Thrangu Rinpoche, who is a Karma Kagyu teacher. So it is not really a surprise that it contains mostly Karma Kagyu texts.
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T51n2076, p461b24-26)
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Jinzang » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:22 am

I'm no authority on that.


Your criticism would carry more weight if you would suggest specific texts equal in quality to those included. I have a translation of a short Mahamudra text by Jigten Sumgon, but I can't say it's more deserving than the texts that were included.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Kai » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:06 am

Astus wrote:It is explicitly in the book that the texts were selected based on the recommendation of Thrangu Rinpoche, who is a Karma Kagyu teacher. So it is not really a surprise that it contains mostly Karma Kagyu texts.


Okay, the title of the book is Mahamudra and Related Instructions: Core Teachings of the Kagyu Schools. The highlighted portion is the climax of the issue.

Your criticism would carry more weight if you would suggest specific texts equal in quality to those included. I have a translation of a short Mahamudra text by Jigten Sumgon, but I can't say it's more deserving than the texts that were included.


Of lesser quality? That's your personal opinion. I'm sure many people, including Kagyu masters, will disagree with you.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby conebeckham » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:46 am

The "Lac Liquid" is, I think, a special sort of liquid, which is not really something available to us.....some Tantras talk of creating this special "salve" or substance.......I believe that's what's being discussed, though I don't have the book in front of me. I'd bet Namdrol could clarify this further.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Sönam » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:00 am

conebeckham wrote:The "Lac Liquid" is, I think, a special sort of liquid, which is not really something available to us.....some Tantras talk of creating this special "salve" or substance.......I believe that's what's being discussed, though I don't have the book in front of me. I'd bet Namdrol could clarify this further.


Thank you Cone ... the answer is sufficient
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby conebeckham » Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:47 pm

The authors from Karma Kagyu, should consult the respective authorities from Drikung, Drukpa and so on for the insertion of their teachings, before coming out with a book that claims to represent all Mahamudra teachings of the Kagyu lineages which is obviously not the case.......


The book includes important texts that originated with the Drikung, Drukpa and Tsalpa schools, as well as the Karma Kagyu. It may not have those texts that you feel are most important, from those traditions, but the decision was given to Thrangu Rinpoche, and not to you. It seems to me that the bulk of this book focuses on the Dakpo Kagyu core--that is, Mahamudra as a sufficent and stand-alone path, the "Path of Liberation," as well as the Six Yogas or "Path of Means." Many of these texts were translated for the first time, in this volume. There are other very important Mahamudra texts which are not included--but which have been previously translated--the FiveFold Mahamudra of the Drikung being one such text, and works of Dakpo Tashi Namgyal and the 9th Karmapa, for example.

I think all the texts included here are of benefit for any practitioner of any lineage descending from Marpa and Gampopa.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Malcolm » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:33 pm

conebeckham wrote:The "Lac Liquid" is, I think, a special sort of liquid, which is not really something available to us.....some Tantras talk of creating this special "salve" or substance.......I believe that's what's being discussed, though I don't have the book in front of me. I'd bet Namdrol could clarify this further.



Lac is the secretion of an insect that lives on the bark of Kerria lacca tree that is used in making red lacquer.

N
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http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

Though there are infinite liberating gateways of Dharma,
there are none not included in the dimension of the knowledge of the Great Perfection.

-- Buddha Samantabhadri
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Sönam » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:41 pm

I'm not a specialist, but it is said in the very first page of presentation (even before the title of the book, inside):

Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche, the principal scholar of the Karma Kagyu school choose the eleven texts for this volume ... an eleventh-century mahamudra text by Lama Shang and a thirteenth-century text ... by Shönu Lha, both of the Tsalpa Kagyü ... a collection of four thirteenth-century texts principally by Sherap Jungné ... Drigung Kagyü; two ... of the Karma Kagyü; a sixteenth-century overview ... of the Dakpo Kagyü ... and so on

it seems quite eclectic for an "only" 765 pages book :popcorn:

Sönam
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Sönam » Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:42 pm

Namdrol wrote:
conebeckham wrote:The "Lac Liquid" is, I think, a special sort of liquid, which is not really something available to us.....some Tantras talk of creating this special "salve" or substance.......I believe that's what's being discussed, though I don't have the book in front of me. I'd bet Namdrol could clarify this further.



Lac is the secretion of an insect that lives on the bark of Kerria lacca tree that is used in making red lacquer.

N


Thank you Namdrol, then it's completely clear ... for the title

Sönam
By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby conebeckham » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:24 pm

I forsee a rapid increase in the price of shares for Lac makers.....you guys may want to get in early.

:smile:
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Re: "Mahamudra and Related Instructions," Peter Roberts

Postby Jinzang » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:14 am

Of lesser quality? That's your personal opinion. I'm sure many people, including Kagyu masters, will disagree with you.


I didn't say it was of lesser quality, I said it was not superior to the included texts. And how can you be sure others would disagree if you haven't read it?
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