YOU CANNOT POST. OUR WEB HOSTING COMPANY DECIDED TO MOVE THE SERVER TO ANOTHER LOCATION. IN THE MEANTIME, YOU CAN VIEW THIS VERSION WHICH DOES NOT ALLOW POSTING AND WILL NOT SAVE ANYTHING YOU DO ONCE THE OTHER SERVER GOES ONLINE.

Parinibbana - a question. - Dhamma Wheel

Parinibbana - a question.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
User avatar
srivijaya
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:31 pm
Location: UK

Parinibbana - a question.

Postby srivijaya » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:11 am

I have a question regarding Parinibbana.

Is it said to be cognizant or incognizant?

Namaste

Kenshou
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Parinibbana - a question.

Postby Kenshou » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:25 am

Non-cognizant, I believe. Consciousness is a phenomena dependent upon conditions which at the point of exit from samsara, cease entirely.

Related: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... bbana.html

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Parinibbana - a question.

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:31 am


User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Parinibbana - a question.

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:36 am

Since a tathagata, even when actually present, is incomprehensible, it is inept to say of him – of the Uttermost Person, the Supernal Person, the Attainer of the Supernal – that after death the tathagata is, or is not, or both is and is not, or neither is nor is not SN III 118, which seems to suggest that the question cognizant or incognizant does not fit, given that seems to imply some sort of being.

Kenshou
Posts: 1030
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:03 am
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Parinibbana - a question.

Postby Kenshou » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:38 am

I suppose both knowing and non-knowing etc. are attributes which require a reference point, which nibbana cannot be said to have.

It's kind of a dance at the edge of the capabilities of language, trying to describe such a thing. But I haven't been there, so I'll leave it at that.

User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23012
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: Parinibbana - a question.

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Mar 04, 2010 8:44 am


User avatar
srivijaya
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:31 pm
Location: UK

Re: Parinibbana - a question.

Postby srivijaya » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:31 am


User avatar
Alex123
Posts: 3476
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:32 pm

Re: Parinibbana - a question.

Postby Alex123 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:58 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

vinasp
Posts: 1675
Joined: Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Bristol. United Kingdom.

Re: Parinibbana - a question.

Postby vinasp » Thu Mar 11, 2010 12:02 pm

Hi srivijaya,

A complex and difficult question. First, the term 'parinibbana', the Buddhist Dictionary by Nyanatiloka says:

"Parinibbana : 'full nibbana', is a synonym for nibbana; this term, therefore, does not refer exclusively to the extinction of the 5 groups of existence at the death of the Holy One, though often applied to it. Cf. nibbana."

I agree that 'parinibbana' seems to be used sometimes to refer to enlightenment attained in this life. I disagree with the rest of the definition.

If you are asking what happens after the literal death of a tathagata or arahant, the teachings do not say anything (except that 'he' is not reborn?).

The passage that you quote from Ud 8.3 may be describing a stage of enlightenment which is attained in this life. If so, then one would still be conscious.

The problem is made more complicated by the difficulty of defining what, exactly, is meant by the 'five aggregates' ( I believe that they can cease before death).

It is even possible that many passages which appear to be describing someones death are in fact describing a higher stage of enlightenment. Idiomatic expressions are frequently used - 'he makes an end', or 'he uses the knife' (a symbol of wisdom).
Even the word 'death' does not have to be taken only in a literal sense.

It is doubtful whether 'vinnana' really means consciousness - perhaps it means a certain kind of knowing. A knowing in terms of self?

My ideas are controversial and outside mainstream thinking, I would not wish to mislead beginners, you must start with the commonly accepted view.

Best wishes, Vincent.

User avatar
srivijaya
Posts: 94
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:31 pm
Location: UK

Re: Parinibbana - a question.

Postby srivijaya » Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:42 am



Return to “General Theravāda discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 22 guests

Google Saffron, Theravada Search Engine