R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

A place for discussion of current events. Buddhist news would be particularly appreciated.

R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby ronnewmexico » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:37 pm

Due to a Supreme Court decision in the US, corporations have been allowed to give as much monies as they deem fit to any political campaign, in basically any fashion. Corporations have been granted rights exactly equal to that of any citizen of the US.

Well it may be asked..of what significance is that?

The significance is....American brains(in the majority) have long ago turned into oatmeal. Their political decision making process is largly dependent upon 30 second sound bites on commercials between shows on American TV media such as American Idol and Greatest Looser.

The consequences are...these oatmeal brained peoples will now be determining all their political choices based entirely on corporate interest.

The future has come to pass. George Orwell with all of his dire prognostications could never have envisioned such a thing. Corporations given benefit of legal protections and other favorances of a governmental legislated sort are now in actuality far far more important in the totality of things than any citizen.

So.....you in the global community if you in the next 2-4 years see some very strange things occuring at the impetus of the US....you know the reason why. Iraq will seem a minor issue compared to what most probably will occur in foreign policy and other areas with complete corporate control of media due to monied interest.

RIP Democracy in the US.....been nice to know you son.....adios.

What interest to a Buddhist....much suffering will occur.

Hugo Chavez be so advised.....Exxon Mobile, Conoco those properties you legally nationalized in your own country, those companies are mad mad as hell and they want those things back....now. They now become without any shred of cloak....the US government. They can now quite openly control that thing.

To my opinion the global consequences of complete corporate control of the US; a progression from a balance of sorts between corporate interest and citizen interest, to complete control.....the eventual outcomes of a negative sort(given time pehaps ten years or so until this ball get rolling)....can not be overstated.

Think things are out of control in the US now folks?...... hang on to your seat....things are unfortunately bound to soonly get very very interesting. This at a time when the future of humanity on earth due to threat of global warming and such, may be at stake. A time when the largest military power ever known to be with resources dwarfing the combined amounts of military hardware of all those anywhere in the world by many times over....becomes part and parcel of corporate interest.

It speaks of great great suffering added onto regular human suffering we all encounter.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
User avatar
ronnewmexico
 
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:17 pm

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby Dana » Wed Jan 27, 2010 4:15 am

Yes Ron,
I saw that one go by and wondered how it could be?
But then, it is merely formalizing what already is taking place and will perhaps expose who is buying oh! , uuuhh, err and um :smile:
supporting whom when election time rolls around.

Our own Canadian counterparts are sponsored similarly with guidelines in place and with the exposure of the fact of one past leader receiving brown bags of money in hotel rooms from an arms dealer :rolling: really, we find out years later and no one is going to jail except the giver of funds. :shrug:
Politics.
Samsara hey?! Ain't it simply amazing?
But what's more so is that people buy into it, ha ha pun intended.

Yes, stay tuned for future episodes...... :popcorn:
Who needs TV?

D
Dana
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:02 pm

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby ronnewmexico » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:40 am

One of the talking heads brougnt up this curious fact....if ExxonMobile devotes but one tenth of their annual profits to political causes it will dwarf the combined totals of both the candidates in the last presidential election.

AS this is just one corporation it means basically....the individual citizen donator....completely out of the loop from this day forward.

It has been tilted recently very favorably towards the corporations but now, this completely changes the ballgame. American democracy is now the corporation. Differing corporations will vie over who owns which politician. And the oatmeal brained have no clue this has happened.

The implications are just now starting to sink into the politicians. They are now tring to front a bill that states basically they can be bought only by American corporate interests not foreign. How that can be constitutional since any corporation is considered equal to a citizen now is beyond my estimation.

So its finished, the shred of democracy left in the US is now.... far gone.
And virtually no one is taking notice. Yet the implications for the global community are enormous.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
User avatar
ronnewmexico
 
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:17 pm

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby Clueless Git » Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:34 am

The 'beauty' of a democracy is that the vast majority of the electorate always get exactly the government they deserve.

That, in my warped mind, makes worrying about owt but changing the electorate pretty much an irrelevant thing.

Governments are kinda like the pus that oozes from an electorates moral wounds.

Can anyone name one genuinely principled elected leader that ever came out of a western democracy, btw?
Clueless Git
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:30 am

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby ronnewmexico » Fri Jan 29, 2010 6:20 pm

Well its absolutely true they get the government they deserve. Keep them stupid by intention, and generally they will be that.

As to individual politicians, well that is a pretty broad brush stroke. I would venture some politicians have worked for the greater good, even in the US. in the past... Franklin D Rosevelt, Bobby Kennedy, Ted Kennedy perhaps. Presently a congressman named Kuchinich. . Rare but some. I could name a bunch more if I put some work to it. The vast majority I agree, but they do indeed represent the electorate that voted them in.

The global danger is the US holds the largest military power proportionally to the rest of the world that has ever existed. And it is in the hands of corporate interest and a oatmeal brained electorate.
That combined with economic destruction which is virtually guaranted in a system with no checks and balances due to deregulation, capitalism run amok, is a receipe for disaster.

Saw today in media a political group has run a bit of satire.They have made a add that has a corporation running for elected office. Since the US supreme court has determined that corporations have equal rights to citizens....why exactly not?

The Supreme court is about as bright as the electorate and do not understand the complete ramifications of their decisions. I expect a judgement will soon ensue on the "right" of citizens to carry firearms, and thusly eleminating the constitutionality of any sort of gun control. Guns in bars on airplanes in daycare centers, schools wherever.....the implications are enormous. Soon to come is my guess.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
User avatar
ronnewmexico
 
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:17 pm

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby kirtu » Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:24 pm

Light a candle rather than curse the darkness. :woohoo:

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4569
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:31 am

"Light a candle rather than curse the darkness"....what!!!

The greatest obstruction to the American democratic system in its entire history, with a perposterous notion futhured that corporations are equal to citizens in their rights to free speech and hence ability to donate despite the fact corporations have by their nature inherant advantages which make that playing field tilted in one way....

and we should perhaps bury our heads in the sand and sing, cumbaya. LIght candles like a rock concert from the sixties or seventies, and wish this all away.

Maybe I will do that tomorrow. Today I will state emphatically unless rectified this is the greatest threat to a free democracy in the US since the civil war. And at a time when the global situation of environmental challenge and religious wars require peoples wills be heard nor corporate intrest

Yes I will do that some other tomorrow.

Today I will call this thing as it is....surely to cause greater harm to humanity..
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
User avatar
ronnewmexico
 
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:17 pm

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby Clueless Git » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:18 am

ronnewmexico wrote:Well its absolutely true they get the government they deserve. Keep them stupid by intention, and generally they will be that.

Now you got me wondering if it is the gov. keeping the electorate stupid or if it is exactly the other way round Ron :lol:

I loosely remember a story about some economist who calculated the cost to the USA of peace with Russia as opposed to war with her.

His theory was something like that giving every Russian citizen two pairs of good shoes would bring about peace, by good will, and be somewhat cheaper than war to boot, as it were.

Possibly that would have been clever politics ...

But what 'clever' voter would want that type of clever politician? If a clever politician would give away shoes to buy peace in t'one instance there would always be a risk that in another instance he may buy peace by giving away John Lennons allegorical 2nd TV set.

Never actualy been sure myself If I genuinely want peace, so long as I don't have to fight or have the fighting bought to my door, that I don't want peace slightly less than I want to keep my nice shiney german built car. :emb:
Last edited by Clueless Git on Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Clueless Git
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:30 am

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby Clueless Git » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:33 am

kirtu wrote:Light a candle rather than curse the darkness. :woohoo:

Kirt

I like that Kirt :bow:

Kinda set to me thinking that if everyone wanted to kinda be the candle that lights the darkness then everything would change.

Thing is everyone kinda wants t'other guy to be the candle whilst they themselves use the cover of darkness to go a'looting and a'plundering for all their worth.

Not sure why I find some sense in shunning self emoliation in favour of trying to light the darkness by setting fire to someone else ..

:guns:
Clueless Git
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 9:30 am

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Jan 30, 2010 8:42 am

Well...."Never actualy been sure myself If I genuinely want peace, so long as I don't have to fight or have the fighting bought to my door, that I don't want peace slightly less than I want to keep my nice shiney german built car."

I doubt very much that is your view CG. As a aside....CAndles and cursing....a load of dung by my take. Yeah in gated communities with guards at the door we can well afford to claim a life of peace. Speak nobly of such things when we benefit and don't have to actually get our hands dirty.

Every life is a compromise of sorts, this nature of living in this human realm. So I suspect you as well as I do what we can. When peoples before the second world war called Hitlers supporters(probably 1/5th of the German population) stupid/oatmeal brained/ idiots....do you suppose they were speaking rashly or improperly? Do you suppose peoples told them to go light some candles instead?. Or do you suppose they did not such thing, and ignored it instead. Stayed mostly silent, I suppose they did. I wonder sometimes, not about that....I am firmly certain where I stand on that, but how peoples can contend such things as lighting candles and all sorts of things I wonder.

So you seriously think it is above them to keep the electorate stupid? Or beyond their means perhaps their ability to do such a thing? Well who really knows. I do know it works to their benefit. Certain things I'd guess are taught in certain ways for certain purposes. Why is a child taught the right and proper thing to do is color between the established lines and not across all lines or to no lines at all....well if your station in life is to color between the established lines, that is what your education teaches you to do. Believe me for a second if even that....the elite are taught no such way of doing things. Do you suppose they employ "time outs" in their versions of education, the elites I mean. Do you suppose, as I suppose, the real meaning of a "time out" is not so very pretty. Probably not I'd guess.

Creative analytical thought the ability to think things through.....pushed out of a person not taught to any degree except for a select few.....Accident perhaps. Who really knows, I can claim conjecture only. The different is thrown out, bad behavior it is, time out, keep away from us and is not the message also, to be different is bad behavior? If you are out not in you are bad? Is the message not internalized and they do this to children? Accident, perhaps.

But it results in death and destruction. 600k killed in that Iraq war minimum. Using methadology employed by the UN and others, to make such determinations. Meaning...that's the valid number. That's only the most recent result of the stupidity. Prior coup attempts usually sucessful in south american with eventual cause of thousand killed by the death squads. A unsucessful Hugo Chavez coup attempt in 02. The abduction of the Haitian president and his removal to South Africa, not many years ago. And I could go on and on. All stupidity by stupid peoples with a stupid electorate to back it up. Do you know they just elected a US senator who supports torture? And how many tortured?

Yeah light a candle. It doesn't make much sense to curse anything of any sort. But this thing, what they do.....dispicable. And we must do what we may to stop it and wake them up, every little thing.

And me personally, I don't blame or put fault to those that do that thing, those that do curse this darkness. It is no worse than what they do, and certainly this thing deserves cursing if curse is only what one can do.

No violence advocation here, but calling a apple a apple and a orange a orange...put me squarely there every time. I find no shame in that.

Darkness....the darkness is the silence, no other. And in this regard it is indeed a darkness of the spirit and of ignorance born.

So that's my opinion on candles and things like darkness and cursing. Thanks for asking. A load of dung a great big load of dung to be exactly clear.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
User avatar
ronnewmexico
 
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:17 pm

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby Nemo » Sat Jan 30, 2010 3:17 pm

Corporations were given the legal rights of persons in 1868. When the language of what defined citizenship was changed to abolish slavery(14th Amendment) it left a loophole that allowed corporations to use the same rights. Again passed by a corrupt supreme court decision. Before that individual stakeholders had personal liability for the actions of their businesses.

These immortal persons have been a problem for a long time. Regan's belief in laissez faire deregulation was much worse than this current legitimization of what already was in place. With Republican approval ratings through the floor big business wanted to prop up their puppet and used the Republican dominated Supreme court to do it. Now they can use as much sleazy propaganda as they want to brainwash anyone with a tv. But the real threat is some disgruntled teenager blowing his nads off? Really?

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/d2dabc ... rel=player
User avatar
Nemo
 
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:23 am
Location: Canada

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:44 pm

Sorry, no...."Corporations were given the legal rights of persons in 1868", this leads to a mistaken inferal.

Corporations were not given equal rights in all regards to citizens. Two specific Supreme court decisions allowed for the control and regulation of corporations as to their ability and means to donate to political campaigns. Which is why legistlation such as the McCain Feingold act which specifically legislated such things, was considered and enacted as valid law. Corporations were always considered to have certain advantaged positions to citizens which did not equate to exact equalness in all regards such as campaign donations and relatedly, free speech.

This decision overturned established prescendence and actual Supreme court decision as regards to this issue. And the specific case(the challenge)....it did not even attempt to overturn the precedence of established law.
This was arbitrarily engaged into by the Supreme court. Legislating not ruling. The Rulings were already made years ago. Never is this done by the Supreme court. As heinous as it is, still is valid the ruling which allowed the internment and divesting of assets of Japanese Americans during world war 2. The court basically never rewrites established decided cases. They modify established decisions if ammendments are made to the constitutiion or modify if the circumstances in which the decison is made have dramatically changed.

This..."Regan's belief in laissez faire deregulation was much worse than this current legitimization of what already was in place."..well yes, Reagan undoubtly believed in many such things, we can conjecture. His nominations to the Supreme Court were not the Chief justice of the supreme court(Roberts) who decided to arbitrarily engage in this issue even though case law was present and the specifics of the case before them did not even breech the issue. NO, it was Robets that made that determination as per his position, a Bush appointee. And Aleito another Bush appointee following in lockstep.

So that is misleading.

As a aside to that....
The idea Buddhists may only engage in political things in other countries (as per those in America being concerned only about China and their human rights violations) is patently absurd. Buddhist monks are directly involved in nonviolent oppostion to many political things such as in Burma presently and in Tibet as well in their own countries.
Apathy and inaction are simply not Buddhist spiritual ethics.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
User avatar
ronnewmexico
 
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:17 pm

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby Nemo » Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:41 pm

You seem to have just realized that multinatonals have hijacked your Democracy. This has arguably been the status quo since the oil crisis of the 70's.

The idea which started under Regan and was solidified under Clinton was that Capitalism was the best form of direct Democracy. A two party system with infrequent elections was considered a poor form of direct Democracy. But whenever you spend your dollars that can be your vote. Direct and immediate. CEO's would technically be elected leaders. They had been voted in by the markets and would keep their jobs based on how profitable they were(profits=votes). Government regulation was interference with Democracy. You would be surprised how many people were infected with this philosophy. This is merely one of the logical outcomes. I actually prefer it to be so blatant. Many people have been warning about such concentrations of power for centuries .Modern Americans rarely figure out what is going on, unlike their founding fathers. You are already a candle in the darkness. The candle is not some feel good hippy BS. It is awareness.
User avatar
Nemo
 
Posts: 656
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:23 am
Location: Canada

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby ronnewmexico » Sat Jan 30, 2010 10:51 pm

No in fact...."You seem to have just realized that multinatonals have hijacked your Democracy. This has arguably been the status quo since the oil crisis of the 70's. " you have your assumptions misplaced as well as your facts. The factual errors I pointed out in my last thread.

YOu as most others do not fully realize the implications of this thing. This is complete total dominance of the political process, not the corporately leaning democracies of the recent US political history.
So you simply are misreading the situation as you have misread the factual state of this thing. This will not start to affect things until 2010 and most probably will not have begining full effect until the 2012 elections.

If unchallenged the political landscape will change entirely.

With a media/advertiseing balance of powers of a sort in the past; much corporate interest was prelevant in politics, but still citizen input and reflection was present. This produced the changes of Glass Steagle but still rendered intact(for example) the SEC and other regulatory agencies . So the corporations had the greater control but not exclusive control. Now very likely will be gone within ten years or so, not only the regulations of Glass Steagle(already gone and not to be replaced), but also any shred of regulatory control. Social security and medicare which so far have weathered the storms of this degree of corporate self interest to survive intact, will eventually be privitized. Any attempts to limit mining or drilling in sensative areas such as wildernesses will be surely gone. Virtually any progressive legislation passed in the last 100 years or so will be destroyed.

Of course this will be very gradual. Like the frog in boiling water most will not even notice. And the incumbants on the left will take quite a while to weed out through the electoral process. So total change and total corporate control.... probably will not start till 2020 and through attrition, get more and more prelevent, with final victory ocurring at about 2030 to my guess. Victory meaning not a shred of democracy left. This all barring panademic, natural disastor of a global scope, or very real economic upheaval(a distinct possibility with no regulation) and consequent soceital upheaval.

Basically you misread not only me but circumstance. What has happened in the past in no way shape nor form approximates what will happen in the future...it is so much worse. Americans if you have not noticed are not exactly poor. They generally live very well compared to the rest of the world. This is not due to corporate largess, it is due to a degree of balance between corporate and individual interest in the politic. This will now end. Now we will get to see unbridled corporate greed at its worst. Dickins England will seem a pleasent place.


Awareness is always functionally present to us. This can not deminish attributal to any circumstance.
Your comparison to me as a candle....perposterous and a absurd comparison. You simply know nothing about me, nothing at all. And little evidently about the specifics of this ruling. You presume you know, you do not. Many in fact know of this fact, and its consequences. People here, some seemingly do not. So I don't bring any light, I bring a bit of unwelcomed truth. The supreme court decision I can tell you the specifics of the aspects of the decision. It is a Buddhist responsibility in a democratic form of government by my take to do so and know such things so we may vote our voice to create less harm. Though small voices we hold. The economic situation, I have endeavored in things economic that necessitate such understandings for quite some time. I must know these things to simply reap my small profit. Correctly predict this crisis I and other many other quite did. Years before it occurance. And the timeing...exact, dependent upon one specific occurance. With that occurance years before the actual crisis...came the crisis. Similiar to this thing, which will have similiar signficance in the politial. What the general public knows about the economic crisis wouldn't fill a thimble. Yet they must know such things to decide exactly who is telling the truth and who is not, but they do not. As they do not know of this simple thing that has occured. Talk instead about candles and such. So I tell you this will happen, and I am told it has already occured(mistakeningly) and to light candles. About the same response as telling peoples before the economic crisis what was to ensue. About the same though different issue. Personally I made profit two years before the crisis at the worst of the crisis and presently, and prepare to make profit as the crisis extends. So it matters not to me personally, I give not a whit. But predicting consequence of action...is not all that difficult. So I predict...again. It may be handy to know what is coming, if no remedial action is taken, which probably will not be, what will happen. One can protect oneself perhaps.

The candle....take the candle and put it into the cart of dung with the other things of dung comprised, well worn, worn out ideas, and cart them away to the graveyard of ideas well past their day and time...bury them there. They do no good here.

Post world war one Germans they, in the throws of the depression, thought things could never get very much worse.....shows how wrong our apprehensions of things can be.

So take no heed of this. I suspect most will not. AS with the economic crisis it is at their peril. But what's to be done.....people like to talk of candles and things considered already done. I do not, but it is not significant to me. What is significant is the harm coming.

As a aside I can describe the economic straw that broke the camels back, but few will probably find it of any interest, it is the past. Few in the past would believe things could unwind that way. Few in the present believe political things can unwind this way, but we are out there. There are many of us with the same story to tell it seems. As there were many, back then, four or so years back. Won't bother us they said and what can we do?. Seems about what they say now.

So I say....prepare yourself and watch this thing very closely, it is coming.

Here's another prediction, I could or didn't want to resist:

As a aside, wether it is good or bad is ultimately in the eye of the beholder as are most things.
Due to global warming and the fact the vast majorities of lower income peoples with few resources are located in low lying costal areas globally, that will become virtually inhabitable, will occur the creation of vast vast numbers of peoples who are basically refugees. Enormous amounts of refugee status peoples with virtually no homeland to go to and no resources. Approximating certainly at least 1 Billion or perhaps quite more, peoples, which is pretty incomprehensible to envision.
Well corporations relocate to third world locations out of competitive necessity of providing low cost goods as a result of low wages. They will instead press various buttons of the existing American populace, to win their position of no restriction to immigration(open borders)... which will have the result of these enormous populations relocating to the US, very gradually, and displacing the established work force and populations. So they will go there. Since the US caused global warming pretty much all by their lonesome until very recently....this will be a poetic justice of sorts, but very painful for Americans. Very low competitive wages available in the US with no relocation of corporation necessary, a win win for corporations since the market for such type goods is likely to remain in the US by predominance and the influx of population will increase consumptive amounts.

But 1 Billion or so global climate refugees will be filling those jobs and any Americans are to work at those low wages as well. Those American will become a very small minority over time. Attempts to give second class status to such immigrants will sustain until they become the majority constituant. Then those restrictions will disappear and so will the historically framed idea of a American. The dollar will so devalue to other things globally the actual wages will seem high but buying power will be quite low, (so Americans will be deceived in that manner as well). Lots and lots of cheap communicative based products which provide the semblence of retained wealth but foods energy and yes health care costs....making the American life commonly one of eightly hour plus weeks just to make ends meet.

So karmic effect. Their country will be for all intents and purposes Bangladesh, and Bangladesh will be quite underwater. Australia Canada and other countries not in corporate control will remain with and tighten immigration and not have this problem to such a great degree. So America is quite finished as the Americans know it....not to say that is good or bad. Ironic it is.....global warming and corporate control which sans its presence could have limited its impact.....destroys the nation that produced it in the main.

America will be as they say...finished. So it will be quite a eventual cause and effect lesson of sorts. I will be long gone....these things matter not to me. And it seems perhaps right....the Bangledesh peoples to inherit America.

The other implications such as the great military being in the hands of the corporations..has however not as benign result, but that is for another conjecture.

So that is the future, as this layperson with little understanding of things sees it...in part.
So as they say...take that to the bank, Americans. Pretty to you it is not, but you are quite sedated and know not of what is coming.

This is coming. But few here I suspect can even read a line or two of this nevertheless this entire post. So this is by mechanism in these times, quite kept secret. Which is perhaps poetic as well. I am not singular however in this view. Others may perhaps explain it more clearly if that is their want and audience wants it. Most however do not, not a hair of it. And those who can explain such things, I think they mostly do not. Peoples it seems they want mostly sides, but that is aside. There are no sides to these things causes and effects only.

Enjoy!! This thing to you is freely given, so as such it is perceived as you tend to perceive such things as totally completly..... worthless. So it is, and will remain to you. Enjoy it as only a thing of no worth may be enjoyed, and discard it....immediately. It is not worthy of you.

As indesipherable it is as if it were written in Dikini script I personally suspect. Ah great writer I am not,I also personally suspect.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
User avatar
ronnewmexico
 
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:17 pm

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby m0rl0ck » Sun Jan 31, 2010 9:13 am

Yeah its over. There are corporations powerful enough to buy both sides of the aisle. From now on our leaders are going to be corporate stooges and domestic and foreign policy will be decided on shareholder profits. Welcome to the fascist states of america.
Ride the horse in the direction its going.

~Werner Erhard
User avatar
m0rl0ck
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 8:53 am

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby ronnewmexico » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:11 pm

Yes, astute comment to my view.

Mussoleni defined facism as a government of the corporation. Many confuse its add ons, racism, antisemiticism, overt nationalism, and all the rest, as its core. Its core is seemingly not all those things but corporation control of every aspect of government. Government as tool. Facism took its impetus into such things, but corporate direction and ultimate profit would have to be considered its prime directive.

So as proven by history; such a thing can be very very dangerous to humanity.There is absolutely no way to know exactly what a future form will have as add ons. Government inspired religious emnity may be such a add on to inspire the masses to incite violence against eachother and hence continue with the need to sell weapons of every sort to peoples and governments. Just one example..... there are potentially hundreds. The elimination of borders and lesser governmental influence of such things except when they benefit corporate governance, I see as being a very real potential, that will occur within the next 15 years, and be directly aimed at the US. But this is only one of the many things that could be reasonably expected.

The potentiality is staggering.

The idea we in the US are, or were, in this spot for the better part of 30 years to my take is a serious misread. There will exist not a shred of balance to these things. If we were already in that spot of total corporate control, there would be no need or impetus for corporations to extend their power. If it was already held, no supreme court decision would have been necessary.

They did not hold complete control, that is a misread, a horrible misread. They now will as consequence of this action.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
User avatar
ronnewmexico
 
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:17 pm

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby kirtu » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:18 pm

ronnewmexico wrote:RIP Democracy in the US.....been nice to know you son.....adios.


I'm still trying to wrap my brain around the implication that the US had democracy to begin with. When was this?

Hasn't the US from it's inception mostly always been a system of serf-creation (and for some 260 years direct slave creation if you had the wrong skin color] and exploitation of the poor and lower class peoples?

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4569
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby Dana » Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:59 pm

From now on our leaders are going to be corporate stooges and domestic and foreign policy will be decided on shareholder profits.

from now on? :rolling:

D
Dana
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 5:02 pm

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby ronnewmexico » Mon Feb 01, 2010 8:30 pm

If you all think that the political structure of the American republic had complete corporate control you must not be allowing for two very significant obvious observations...

the relative affluence of the American peoples cannot be allowed for in that analytical model. Nor can the existance of any socially beneficial programs which are not corporately driven such as social security and medicare.

No the facts speak against that. That position with this counter is again refuted.

The peoples of America even the poorest are comparatively wealthy on a global scale and programs such as social security(which named communist republics like China does not have) do exist.

Neither situation would be allowed to exist with complete corporate control of the politic.

On the first point, Unions and Unionization which allowed for much of this affluence to exist, would have been considered monopolistic concerns which stifle freedom and thusly would have been outlawed long ago by supreme court ruling. The supreme court would not contain five conservative judges but nine.

ON the second point social security would never has existed nor medicare and both would, in a corporately controlled democracy, been legislatively eliminated if they had ever existed, and privatized.

Americans to my personal take are living in a very soft coccoon of self indulgence, and have no conception as to how bad things may be. They will soon find out.

So I refute that notion. Peoples may of course continue to hold it, as even some peoples continue to assert the world is flat, but it is not logically sustainable.
"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.
User avatar
ronnewmexico
 
Posts: 1601
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:17 pm

Re: R.I.P. Democracy in the United States

Postby kirtu » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:15 am

ronnewmexico wrote:If you all think that the political structure of the American republic had complete corporate control you must not be allowing for two very significant obvious observations...


No, the US is not under complete corporate control - but historically people in power - frequently powerful business interests - have a far greater degree of power and control over US policy than a mere single vote cast every four years.

You then raise the question of the relative affluence of the American people. This is answered differently by people of different POV's. I have yet to see a rational analysis of the actual cause of this relative affluence (except for the fact that after WWII the US didn't have to rebuild while every other technological nation on earth at that time did have to rebuild) and the fact that the US is lush with resources.

Social security was a hotly contested program when introduced by Roosevelt. Roosevelt was called a traitor to his class by some from the upper classes. He apparently did not introduce the idea that citizens need to take responsibility for other citizen's at least to ensure that elderly people do not die in abject poverty (a common occurrence before 1937). These ideas had definitely been advanced before Roosevelt by the Catholic Worker Movement led by Dorthy Day. Perhaps social Christianity had an effect on Roosevelt's thinking? Similarly medicare follows this line. Of course many conservatives have been trying to destroy medicare and social security for quite some time.

The peoples of America even the poorest are comparatively wealthy on a global scale and programs such as social security(which named communist republics like China does not have) do exist.


Well China is not communist but totalitarian. Interestingly most people born and raised in the US compare the US with poor or developing nations to prove their points. Try comparing the US with Scandinavia and western Europe, Canada, Japan, South Korea and Singapore.

As for the relative wealth of even the poorest people - it doesn't matter one bit to people who die from lack of access to health care or heat in the winter. Is it still true that more people freeze to death in the US every year because their heat was turned off than the total killed fleeing East Germany (actually even I think that one is a bit suspect but are over 100 people still freezing to death every year due to lack of heat and homelessness)?

Neither situation would be allowed to exist with complete corporate control of the politic.


Why not? Corporations are only interested in the bottom line and don't care about their serf workers (in general, some corporations do care some).

On the first point, Unions and Unionization which allowed for much of this affluence to exist,

The history of unions in the US doesn't bolster your point as unions were violently attacked in several well-known cases. In fact many unions are impotent after 30 years of Reaganism. I was just (IMHO) unjustly terminated and the union did nothing.

Unions in the US are run by people motivated by their prejudices and personal objectives rather than principles. The US is a kind of dog-eat-dog social war.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche
User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
 
Posts: 4569
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Next

Return to News & Current Events

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

>