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Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan? - Page 10 - Dhamma Wheel

Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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tiltbillings
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Mar 03, 2010 6:59 am


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Re: Dharma Wheel -- Mahayana forum

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:02 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Dharma Wheel -- Mahayana forum

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:12 am


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:13 am


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Re: Dharma Wheel -- Mahayana forum

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:17 am

Last edited by Paññāsikhara on Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:43 am


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Mar 03, 2010 7:54 am

There is a "cirakAla-", it's almost all commentarial.

And, "cirakAlabhAvana-" is, you guessed it, in the Cariyapitaka Atthakatha! eg. PTS p. 18:

Tasso hi bodhisambhāresu bhāvanā sabbasambhārabhāvanā nirantarabhāvanā cirakālabhāvanā sakkaccabhāvanā cāti. Tāsu ‘‘kappe ca satasahasse, caturo ca asaṅkhiye’’ti iminā cirakālabhāvanā vuttā. ... etc.

Rather an understatement for "a long time", huh? :tongue:

There are other related ones, but dredging them all out is a chore at times. ...

----

And, Th-a-k, PTS ii 80:
Dīghamaddhānanti cirakālaṃ anādimati saṃsāre aparimāṇakālaṃ.

Seems perhaps even longer. Is that possible? :thinking:

Which is longer, an "incalculable" or an "immeasurable" length of time?
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby Ben » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:26 am

Hi Venerable

I would greatly appreciate it if, when you post something in Pali, that you provide an English translation. There are only a handful of members on DW that understand Pali and not providing an English translation you are inadvertantly depriving those who are not Pali literate an opportunity to participate in discussion. I believe I am not speaking just for myself.
metta

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“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
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in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:48 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby Virgo » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:24 pm

I provided quotation that is clear as day. Stating that I didn't simply because at first I only linked to a book and only quoted the scripture myself later is wrong. Using that as an excuse to act as if I didn't quote scripture at all, which of course I clearly did, and practically ignoring what I did quote and saying "you haven't quoted anything" is wrong. Constantly verbally abusing someone because you do not agree with his view is wrong. After having quoted scripture that clear as day shows that the development of the Ten Perfections is needed for many, many lifetimes for any aspirant to nibbana, acting as If I have "not yet provided anything" is simply ridiculous. There is no need for me to quote numerious scriputres again and again simply to prove my point that I proved with scripture already. I only have to quote one. I've backed up my argument about the Parami not only with scripture but also with with reason. I would appreciate it of the verbal abuse stopped as well. I live in America now and do not have access to the Tipitika to find more qoutes at this moment in time, nevertheless, I still quoted the scriptures and proved my point. Perhaps some posts of mine in this thread have been passed over?

Thanks again,

kevin


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby pt1 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:27 pm

Hi retro, thanks for replying. Yes, I agree that probably the best way to proceed is to stick to quotes. I'll try and dig a bit for those that seem to point towards "many, many..." development. If you find time, I'd still very much like to hear your thoughts on how do mental faculties actually develop and what system should we adopt to quantify the development. I mean, I think the inherent problem in this thread is that we have no clear definitions on either side regarding "developing wisdom from level x to level y equals z" - where z is some starting level of development, y is awakening, and z is the amount of time from x to y. E.g, the people to whom the Buddha preached satipatthana sutta, is their x the same as mine? Can z be shortened by satipatthana, or is satipatthana in fact equal to z, or something else? etc. I mean, I see no clear way of how to define all this and thus be sure that "7 days" applies to exactly this much of x and z. It all just seems terribly relative in each particular case so only generalized statements are possible, unless of course one is a sammasambuddha and knows other's propensities and what to teach them accordingly in a particular situation.

Best wishes

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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby pt1 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:49 pm


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby meindzai » Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:26 pm


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:15 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby Virgo » Wed Mar 03, 2010 8:41 pm

Retro, this is what I am talking about:



Kevin


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:42 pm

Greetings Kevin,

That points to one of Tilt's posts.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:45 pm


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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:51 pm

Greetings Mike,

Thanks, I found it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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retrofuturist
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Re: Many lifetimes of paramita development needed to be aryan?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:02 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: Dharma Wheel -- Mahayana forum

Postby Annapurna » Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:11 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/


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